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Discussion Starter #1
im new to the fourm and this question might have already been answered on here so forgive me if it is.

i am loooking for a low grain 9mm hollow point self defense round for CC. i want a round that has good expansion but is not going to over pentrate and hurt some one behind the threat. any one have a round in mind that can do this?
 

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im new to the fourm and this question might have already been answered on here so forgive me if it is.

i am loooking for a low grain 9mm hollow point self defense round for CC. i want a round that has good expansion but is not going to over pentrate and hurt some one behind the threat. any one have a round in mind that can do this?
I use Extreme Shock (extremeshockusa.com). Shot 5-6 bad guys and not one survived.
 

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Ok...

First off...clear up a misconception about JHP's overpenetrating. In short, any properly functioning JHP likely won't. Very few JHP's that open up leave the body; most are stopped under the skin on the oppsite side. The few that do are mostly stopped by clothing...and the few of those that aren't are usually found lying on the ground a few feet away. In short, in the unlikely event of the round clearing your target, it's spent.

Second--in order for a round to be effective, it needs to punch deep into the body, where the vital structures are located. A lightweight JHP just won't do that, lessening the chance of causing a stopping wound. That means you have to shoot more, and in a dynamic situation, tha means the likliehood of more misses. Missed rounds are a LOT more dangerous than a round that might maybe, but probably won't punch clean through.

Third--Extreme Shock is a mall ninja gimmick load. Avoid it.

The lightest I'd ever consider is the 115gr +P DPX, or the 115gr Barnes in any other loading (Black Hills and Wilson Combat are both loading this bullet as well as Cor-Bon). It's a bullet with a decent track record.
 

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The various 115gr +P or +P+ rounds are probably your best bet, but overpenetration is the least of my worries. Misses are going to be the problem, not shoot throughs, but shoot throughs always count.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
thanks for the feed back marc82much. extream schock will going on thie list to test.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
cuda66 you make a very valid point. i havent been able to get out and do my on testing on hollow points so my data has come from the internet and balistic gel testing. but i ahve to ask why you dislike extream shock.
 

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Try out some Gold Dots, HST's, Ranger t, PDX1...etc and see what you shoot the best. I would stick with 124gr and above. The barnes copper bullet loaded by either Corbon, Blackhills, and some others is the only 115gr round I would consider, but, they are quite a bit more expensive than the rounds I mentioned and won't do the job any less or more effectively (unless you shoot them much better of course).

Like mentioned above, stay away from the Extreme shock. It's a frangible round that under penetrates and the price is an absolute joke. For around what it costs for 10 of those you can get 50 rounds of quality ammo that will actually be up to the task. The stuff is a joke...
 

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cuda66 you make a very valid point. i havent been able to get out and do my on testing on hollow points so my data has come from the internet and balistic gel testing. but i ahve to ask why you dislike extream shock.
Simple. First off, it simply doesn't live up to it's claims. It has a nasty tendency of NOT coming apart when it hits walls, and becoming a serious overpenetrator.

Second--IF it expands in a soft target, it underpenetrates. Underpenetration is not a good thing.

Third--while it does a great job on watermelons, it doesn't do a good job in anything else. And I'm not going to be attacked by watermelons at any point.

Fourth--How much is it going to cost you to verify your pistol likes it; the minimum amount to do this is at least one entire magazine out of every magaznine you're going to use for self defense...for the same amoutn, you could likley buy a couple hundred rounds of a reliable defensive load and verify your pistol feeds it well.

Fifth--if it was really so darn good...why don't any major LE agencies use it? Heck, you'd think it would be perfect for, say, Sky Marshal use...except they use Gold Dots. Why is that, I wonder?;)

And a bit more on overpenetration (and why one really shouldn;t worry about it) buy one of the foremost experts in the terminal ballistics field (and one of the guys who gave the info in the earlier posted link)... The Presumptive Hazards of Over-Penetration - M4Carbine.net Forums
 

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I use Extreme Shock (extremeshockusa.com). Shot 5-6 bad guys and not one survived.
thanks for the feed back marc82much. extream schock will going on thie list to test.
No need to test it, it has already been tested by professionals and it's been found to be crap. Over priced crap. I'd rather use cheap WWB HPs than ES crap, hell I'd use Hornady CD before ES and I HATE HORNADY CD for the gimmick round it is.
 

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After reading the link on self defense bullet retainded weight and expansion. One bullet stands way out in front of the pack and it is the one Cuda66 mentioned. The barnes lawman all copper hollow point. So if you want a 115 gr DPX 9mm that is the winner, hands down.
 

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No need to test it, it has already been tested by professionals and it's been found to be crap. Over priced crap. I'd rather use cheap WWB HPs than ES crap, hell I'd use Hornady CD before ES and I HATE HORNADY CD for the gimmick round it is.
Heck, I'd sooner carry Silver Bear JHP's...:shock:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ok so extreme shock is WAY out. Winchester PDX1, barns lawman, gold dots and the HST are going on the list. Thanks for the feed back guys.
 

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Ok so extreme shock is WAY out. Winchester PDX1, barns lawman, gold dots and the HST are going on the list. Thanks for the feed back guys.
IF I were worried about over penetration, I would NOT put any bonded JHP on ym list. They are designed to stay together & penetrate deep. So std cup/core light wts like the Fedral 115gr+P+ are less likley to leave the target on a marginal hit (think am or leg, etc). Since I do NOT worry that much about over penetration, the rounds on your list are all good choices.
 

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HST's in 124 or 147 both standard and +P,
Gold Dots,
Ranger/PDX-1.
If you like FMJ, S&B has a 115 gr load at 1300 fps and 464 ft-lbs of energy.
Would make a nice stagger load if your into that ?
You really can't go wrong with the JHP's listed though !
 

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HST's in 124 or 147 both standard and +P,
Gold Dots,
Ranger/PDX-1.
If you like FMJ, S&B has a 115 gr load at 1300 fps and 464 ft-lbs of energy.
Would make a nice stagger load if your into that ?
You really can't go wrong with the JHP's listed though !
I use the S&B police ball load in my spare mag when I carry the XD9. Good ammo and accurate too.

Fiocchi makes an equal load in 115 too, they also have a truncated 124fmj that faster than 124 PDX1 +P. Thank god we have CIP spec ammo available for us to load up
 

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Boris I knew you would have to throw in that CIP thing. :)
 

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Boris I knew you would have to throw in that CIP thing. :)
For sure.

If you are going to carry ball you are going to want it to be as fast as possible. That eliminates every domestic made SAAMI ball load unless you use M882 ball.

cuda66
The Silver Bear 145 jhp actually works very good. Its accurate and never had one fail to expand. Heck even the 9x18 Makarov jhp has never failed me and I carry it regularly. I like it better than the gold dot or xtp in that caliber. It IS that good....
 
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