[100968]

I load the HO 2266b(soft point) bullet over 25.0 g of h335 and have super consistent V readings and sub Moa accuracy for a good ways out. I see that the 55 gr vmax is in the same category of data in the manual where a max of 23.2 g is the max. so I've never seen pressure signs or had the first issue with loading to 25g. The soft point is .370 - .373" base to ogive. the vmax measured exactly .413 every single time. very consistent bullet. It's just hard for me to believe I can't load these vmaxs up to 25 g as well and have better results. I loaded to the manual max and got 2800 fps. the soft points run in the 2990s consistently for me.
I made a charge ladder ranging from hornady s max up to what I use for the soft points at 25 g h335 @ 2.26".
also I set the sp's to 2.20". the .06 offset would make up for the bullet length difference.

Agree, disagree?, Any opinions or real world experience ?

I will know this time tomorrow , and will record the data, just like to hear if I'm in safe territory? I worked up slow.

 

[fredj338]

When working the top end of the pressure range, everything matters; case brand, primer brand & bullets. Bullets are seldom plug & play at the top end. There is more to the bullet than it's bearing surface. Core hardness, jacket mat'l & thickness, all play into pressures. Your rifle may very well be able to take the same load, but you have to work it up. Drop back 5% & work back up in 2/10gr increments. Shooting over the chrono, yo ushould see linear pressure/vel increase. If it spikes or flattens, that is telling you bad things are about to happen, stop there, even back down 2/10gr from that point.
I have some rifles that shoot fine over avg book max, some I can't even get close to avg book max. Every rifle is diff, why you should never exceed max data. Really, 100-150fps is not really affecting terminal ballistics much. The V-max shape will probably offset any vel loss downrange vs their SP.

 

[100968]

I hit a couple of squirrels with these going around 2700-2800 fps and was hoping the extra V would stop instead of some running a short distance. I Could switch bullets I suppose before tying to push these too far and just use them for what they are.

I got the idea to exceed max bc Hodgdon lists 24.0 g max for 60 g v-max. which tells me atleast they handle 24 at 55 grains.
I don't typically even approach max at any cost. just here bc all my other hunting 55 s are going near 3000 in mid range charges. I just believe the bullet is meant to go faster lol

 

[100968]

I'm actually having second thoughts about the 25 grains behind it now. I guess I will pay close attention to the velocity changes 24 - 24.4 g before I pull the trigger even on the 24.6 cases I've made. no real loss if signs show early, about 5$ of supplies that will just get set aside until I find a bullet puller . Thanks for pumping my brakes lol.

 

[fredj338]

I hit a couple of squirrels with these going around 2700-2800 fps and was hoping the extra V would stop instead of some running a short distance. I Could switch bullets I suppose before tying to push these too far and just use them for what they are.

I got the idea to exceed max bc Hodgdon lists 24.0 g max for 60 g v-max. which tells me atleast they handle 24 at 55 grains.
I don't typically even approach max at any cost. just here bc all my other hunting 55 s are going near 3000 in mid range charges. I just believe the bullet is meant to go faster lol

You are making a common mistake reading data manuals. What works in one test platform from may not work in yours. Chamber size, throat length, bore size & smoothness, bbl length & twist, it all plays into pressures & vel. So chasing book data with your rifle can be problematic. Keep in mind, you lose 40-50fps per inch of bbl fom the Test gun.
Work up in small increments, note the vel progression, when it stops being linear, your getting into a danger zone. Always look for pressure signs, harder in a semi, but case head & extractor arks mean you are already at high pressures.

 

[100968]

You are making a common mistake reading data manuals. What works in one test platform from may not work in yours. Chamber size, throat length, bore size & smoothness, bbl length & twist, it all plays into pressures & vel. So chasing book data with your rifle can be problematic. Keep in mind, you lose 40-50fps per inch of bbl fom the Test gun.
Work up in small increments, note the vel progression, when it stops being linear, your getting into a danger zone. Always look for pressure signs, harder in a semi, but case head & extractor arks mean you are already at high pressures.

Thanks for the info, I am very systematic in working up and in fact do so in .2 increments also.
I feel relatively safe useing the powder manufacturers website data over the bullet manufacturers data. Also I have always used heavier bullet data as a start point for lighter bullets of the same make. I have worked up carefully from hornady s minimum to max. I could feel that the load was light even at their prescribed max. I'm not so much chasing book numbers as I am trying to reach this combos safe potential. I feel hornady has left a lot of room in their data.
I would have data to post except stupid tension pulley arm malfunctioned on car today. maybe Saturday.

 

[57K]

Different bullets that just complicate things further, but NOSLER now gives all of their data at their website and I like to check multiple sources anyway before starting a load work-up specific to the bullet being used. BTW, I don't use H335 or load .223 and I don't take Hodgdon data with more than a grain of salt! That goes back to their ad campaign years back for H110 where they screamed, "NO Wimps Please," gave a ridiculous velocity for a 125 gr. JHP loaded with H110 in .357 Magnum below what the charges that a good many manuals listed for the same weight, and then in the fine print you read that the velocity was recorded witha 10" test barrel! Plus the one and only time I'll probably ever email them, they seemed like a bunch of smartasses to me.

 

[100968]

I'm comparing data from same bullet just different weight, both v maxs, 60 and 55. I've just always gone by lighter bullets of the same type require more powder , or handle more powder?? I could be wrong.

As for hodgdon being smartasses, they probably were. most of their data uses similiar test barrels lengths and twists to ones I use, closer than noslers anyway.
and typically I verify very similiar data in multiple applications calibers and combos.

Nosler says 25.0g for max and for the most accurate load tested for 55s ,with their rifles etc. I have verified that data repeatedly , with the ballistic tip varmegeddons. also the most accurate loads/powder/bullet combo for the 64 bonded and 62 varmeggedon hps. their data is spot on, I still worked up in those cases as well. I make and store this ammunition so I'm not so worried about shooting hot loads often and wearing the gun etc. I just like to ensure a load is safe / accurate and then bank it in an ammo can, label and forget. maybe shoot another deer in the eye with one when season comes back in.

 

[Mercmar]

I'm actually having second thoughts about the 25 grains behind it now. I guess I will pay close attention to the velocity changes 24 - 24.4 g before I pull the trigger even on the 24.6 cases I've made. no real loss if signs show early, about 5$ of supplies that will just get set aside until I find a bullet puller . Thanks for pumping my brakes lol.

I've loaded a bunch of 55gr V-maxes @ 25-26 (yep, 26) grains of 335, with excellent accuracy and no problems. Some were fired from a bolt rifle; others from ARs. I'd bet a lot of $$$ that you're not going to have any problems at 25 gr.

 

[100968]

I've loaded a bunch of 55gr V-maxes @ 25-26 (yep, 26) grains of 335, with excellent accuracy and no problems. Some were fired from a bolt rifle; others from ARs. I'd bet a lot of $$$ that you're not going to have any problems at 25 gr.

Sweet good to know. I felt like there was some wiggle room there. the sound and feel of the round @ 23.2g was lighter and quieter(still loud as hell lol) than other hunting loads I've developed.

 

[fredj338]

I'm comparing data from same bullet just different weight, both v maxs, 60 and 55. I've just always gone by lighter bullets of the same type require more powder , or handle more powder?? I could be wrong.

n.

Generally, it's safe to use heavier bullet data for lighter bullets of the same style. Shorter bearing length & less weight = lower pressures.

 

[57K]

Another thing I do, and I think maybe Fred does similar, and that's to look at all the data even if bullets are slightly different but same weight/general style, because what I'm mainly interested in is a good starting point. Then, if you have actual data for the specific bullet, you know, ballpark anyway, where you'll be getting close to max pressure. I've used mostly NOSLER Bullets in the past, but I'm beginning to use more Hornady's like the XTPs and I'd really like to work out some of the SSTs for whitetail loads because they're BC's are close to the Ballistic Tip or equal and they're constructed a little heavier. I guess it means I'm gonna have to buy a new Hornady manual. I only hope it's worth buying.

Oh, and on the email/smartass thing. All I was trying to do was to get them to confirm that HS6 = W540 some years back and now 540 isn't available. Whoever responded must have been having a bad day, but then again, if I had to live in Kansas, I might be no happier a person than they were.

 

[fredj338]

Yep, regardless of data, even if you are using identical components, you always work up to max loads.

 

[100968]

Yep, regardless of data, even if you are using identical components, you always work up to max loads.

I agree and always do as well. with every component change for that matter!!

 

[fredj338]

I agree and always do as well. with every component change for that matter!!

Yep, if you are running max loads, everything matters; case brand, primer, bluet type, oal, it all can make your max lad unsafe.

 

[100968]

Finally tested the ladder today and actually ended shooting my best 5 shot group to date at 300 yards, 2 1/4" group. 10 clicks (1/2 minute adj) up,waited for wind flags to die to still. I was pleased doing this from AR.


PLEASE USE YOUR OWN DATA. THIS DATA EXCEEDS HORNADY MANUAL RECOMENDATIONS. RIFLES AND CHAMBERS VARY. PLEASE START LOW AND WORK UP ALWAYS.

16" Bushmaster bbl.
92 F
Winchester NT brass trim 1.745" headspace 1.4535"
CCI No 450 magnum primers
H335
55 grain vmax bullet length base to olive .413" on entire 100 pack box!!!!
2.255" COAL
1.8725" Base to ogive

all charges are an average of a minimum 6 shots

avg velocity. high low deviation

24.0. 2842. 6
24.2. 2874. 38
24.4. 2898. 38
24.6. 2953. 33
24.8. 2939. 19
25.0. 3012. 14

No signs of pressure , very nice load. while taking velocites all groups where sub Moa at 100 yards with no one charge standing out for me. Also worth mentioning, every bullet in that box measured .413", base to ogive. that's some great QC!!!