[mongoose33]

This is kind of an extension of the thread from earlier today, about the decapping/sizing/expansion issue with a .45 die I have.

After reading what people said, I went back to the shop to look at the dies, and took pictures. What I apparently have is something very...different.

Here are the pics:

First pic shows the decapping die and the sizing die:

The next pic shows the decapping die disassembled:

It doesn't show in the first pic, but the sizing die has threads on top where you could presumably install a decapping assembly--but not the one that I have on the case mouth expander! (Different diameter openings).

Has anyone ever seen anything like this? It's an older set of dies, likely from the 1980s sometime.

I'm also trying to figure how I should use them. I could resize the cases before decapping and casemouth expansion, or maybe could resize after seating the bullet.

I ran a test cartridge (bullet already seated) though the resizing die and it produced a cartridge diameter the same size as an empty cartridge.

So what do you think? Resize, then decap and casemouth expansion at the same time? Or decap/expand, seat bullet, then run them through the sizing die?

(Third alternative is get a new set of dies, but these are carbide and I don't want to .

 

[redyak3]

Coming from a relative "greenhorn" my opinion is well...
I'd follow the sequence of the New Dimension Die sets:
Decap/resize, expand then seat.
The Hornady 3 die pistol set is carbide and is made for that LNL-AP...
just saying

 

[agalindo]

Resize, then decap and expand, then charge and seat the bullet. You can't resize once you put a bullet in the case.

 

[scooterj]

Look inside the die from the bottom. If it is a carbide resizing die, it's quite possible the carbide ring fell out. In which case, you would not be resizing at all. If there was a carbide ring, you'll know when you look at it.
The flare is from the threads on the decapper. Back the decapper out one revolution and lock it down. Try it again and there should be no flare.

 

[fredj338]

You have an old set of dies, really old. They are probably not carbide. I've seen this exact same setup on a freinds 9mm set. Keep the set & buy a new carbide set. Then you can use the extra seating die to crimp only. You can use the set as is, but I would NEVER reload pistol rounds w/o a carbide sizer.

 

[mongoose33]

You have an old set of dies, really old. They are probably not carbide. I've seen this exact same setup on a freinds 9mm set. Keep the set & buy a new carbide set. Then you can use the extra seating die to crimp only. You can use the set as is, but I would NEVER reload pistol rounds w/o a carbide sizer.

The box they came in says carbide, and the dies themselves say CARB.

I'm sure I'll get a new set--but in the meantime I want to be able to reload these, and it will do that. I've run dummy rounds through the dies, and the sizer works.

 

[jfdavis58]

I've followed both threads. I'm wondering if the dies are mis-assembled. You seem to be saying at one point that this is a three die set-yet the photos show only two main pieces.

It would not be outside the realm of possibilities to have a full length resizing die (1), a bell/decapping die (2) and a seater/crimp die (3). But then we are back to three pieces and ...

Got any photos of the whole set-up or am I mis-understanding things again?

 

[mongoose33]

I've followed both threads. I'm wondering if the dies are mis-assembled. You seem to be saying at one point that this is a three die set-yet the photos show only two main pieces.

I didn't include the bullet-seating die in the pics.

It would not be outside the realm of possibilities to have a full length resizing die (1), a bell/decapping die (2) and a seater/crimp die (3). But then we are back to three pieces and ...

Got any photos of the whole set-up or am I mis-understanding things again?

It's just a weird set. I'm pretty convinced now that this set simply is different. The expansion die also decaps; why someone would design it that way I don't know, though one would assume based on what we see today in design that today's way is a better way.

But the sizing die works fine (I've used a caliper to see), and the cases are belled just fine, and the decapper works.

I'm going to reload .45 on my hopefully-soon-to-arrive Hornady LnL AP, so I'm thinking that getting new dies might be in order (carbide, of course).

 

[fredj338]

Like I said, they will work fine, maybe even on the LNL. With 5 stations you could size, bell/decap, powder thru, seat crimp.

 

[highscore]

This truely is strange. I guess it will work but what press are you going to use and where is the spent primer going to go? If you go single stage I can see it but if you going to use the LNL, you will need to decap ahead of time.

 

[mongoose33]

This truely is strange. I guess it will work but what press are you going to use and where is the spent primer going to go? If you go single stage I can see it but if you going to use the LNL, you will need to decap ahead of time.

I hadn't thought of that. The decapping pin isn't interchangeable into the sizing die so I can't swap it over.

I don't know the LnL yet (hasn't arrived, but I have hope--the site I bought it from appears to be processing it!), but couldn't it be used in such a way that the primer just drops free from the second station?Or is that first station the only one you can use a decapping die on, such that it collects the spent primer?

EDIT: I went to the Hornady site to look at the manual, and it looks to me like the only station which would allow a primer to drop out is station #1. If so, I'm out of luck on that.

Time for new dies, methinks.

 

[highscore]

I hadn't thought of that. The decapping pin isn't interchangeable into the sizing die so I can't swap it over.

I don't know the LnL yet (hasn't arrived, but I have hope--the site I bought it from appears to be processing it!), but couldn't it be used in such a way that the primer just drops free from the second station?Or is that first station the only one you can use a decapping die on, such that it collects the spent primer?

EDIT: I went to the Hornady site to look at the manual, and it looks to me like the only station which would allow a primer to drop out is station #1. If so, I'm out of luck on that.

Time for new dies, methinks.

Unfortunately, sometimes spending for new stuff is the best way and will save you tons of time in the long run. Just letting them drop would create a big mess and you wouldn't do it twice, unless outdoors is an option which in your case, is doubtful, at least until spring. You can always decap first then for now and then run them through the LNL.

 

[cheezhed]

what you have is most likely a older rcbs .45 die set. Is this a .45 acp die set? If so this then your die set is just fine . What you do with this type of die set is size first then deprime and flare with the 2nd die and seat your bullet with the 3rd die after you reprime and throw powder. The 3rd die will most likely not taper crimp as the set that I have is set up to roll crimp what I did when I used this die set was to flare lightly and use the roll crimp to bump back the flare just do not over crimp also you can leave the flare in and remove it if you buy a lee factory crimp die