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Hi all, I have been putting Remington factory loads at higher bullet weights thru my brand spanking new XD40 service model. so far everything is hunky dory, but I wanted a good defensive round for CCW purposes and picked up the Hydras (at quite the expense). Any thoughts?
 

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Hydra Shoks have always been my first choice of defensive rounds in different calibers and weights because of the reliability (thousands of rounds through my guns and NO problems) and penetration/expansion characteristics. Just recently, I've been playing around with some Gold Dots in a few of my guns, no FTE's or FTF's, good accuracy, but I haven't seen the penetration/expansion data for these yet.


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Hydra Shocks are NOT a good defensive round and are about 15yrs out of date. Refer to the 5th thread down on this forum. Visit the site I refer to there and read some info about more technogically advanced and robust rounds. Hydra Shocks fail to expand/penetrate properly in denim/gel testing, which is a standard presently used. This represents someone wearing several layers of clothing.

I know one will use what they want, but I'd recommend reading info from the experts who provide scientific facts, not anecdotal statements. Tho it may sound like it Vyolater, this isn't a personal attack on you; it's just that a lot of people mention this bullet as being very good and it isn't.
 

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retired said:
Hydra Shocks are NOT a good defensive round and are about 15yrs out of date. Refer to the 5th thread down on this forum. Visit the site I refer to there and read some info about more technogically advanced and robust rounds. Hydra Shocks fail to expand/penetrate properly in denim/gel testing, which is a standard presently used. This represents someone wearing several layers of clothing.

I know one will use what they want, but I'd recommend reading info from the experts who provide scientific facts, not anecdotal statements. Tho it may sound like it Vyolater, this isn't a personal attack on you; it's just that a lot of people mention this bullet as being very good and it isn't.
you have no idea what you are talking about??? hydra shoks out of date?? they have a pin designed to help expansion, thats way more advanced than just a normal HP?

And they do expand, great! i did one quick search on google and this is the first page i pulled up:

http://www.custompistols.com/bengtson/articles/ammorslt.HTM

the Federal did great in its tests. not only that but several members here have done their own tests and the federal often expands over twice the size.

The bottom line is: any recognized modern day brand of ammo will work fine at stopping a threat if it fires. reliability is the most important thing. Hell sometimes i wish i was carrying normal ball ammo.
 

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I'll try to shoot a 135 grain Hydra-shok through some water jugs this weekend and post the results.
 

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you have no idea what you are talking about??? hydra shoks out of date?? they have a pin designed to help expansion, thats way more advanced than just a normal HP?
The design of the Hydrashok uses fluid pushing against the pin to force the jacket to expand. In theory that's great, but how many B/G's are going to be not wearing clothes. The problem is that the clothing "plugs" up the cavity and doesn't allow the Hydrashok to work as it should. I've even heard that if you take the pin out of the center it won't expand. I know from personal experience that when firing through denim, the cavity gets plugged and causes very little expansion. Hydrashoks DO penetrate pretty well, if that's what you're after. All in all, compared to other reputable rounds out there (even others from Federal), I'm very disappointed with the Hydrashok.
 

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87-51 said:
you have no idea what you are talking about??? hydra shoks out of date?? they have a pin designed to help expansion, thats way more advanced than just a normal HP?
The design of the Hydrashok uses fluid pushing against the pin to force the jacket to expand. In theory that's great, but how many B/G's are going to be not wearing clothes. The problem is that the clothing "plugs" up the cavity and doesn't allow the Hydrashok to work as it should. I've even heard that if you take the pin out of the center it won't expand. I know from personal experience that when firing through denim, the cavity gets plugged and causes very little expansion. Hydrashoks DO penetrate pretty well, if that's what you're after. All in all, compared to other reputable rounds out there (even others from Federal), I'm very disappointed with the Hydrashok.
I'll shoot some denim covered water jugs with 135 grain Hydra-Shoks this weekend.

Hydra-Shoks, Gold Dots, Etc. have gone through different variations since their inception. Just because they aren't the new ammo on the block, doesn't mean they aren't using new technology.

Gold Dots, when expanded, used to have an 8 petal design. In testing, they found the current 6 petal design to be more stable, retain more weight, expand more reliably, etc, so they redesigned the round. Not a lot of info was released on this, but it was an innovation to an existing product.

Hydra-Shoks have gone through different modifications over time as well. In the .45 ACP, the shape of the round was altered at one time so that it would feed better. Post heights have been modified, as has the hardness of the materials. I would agree that not as much research has gone into updating this round in the last couple years since the HST round was released by Federal, but Federal, just as all ammo manufacturers do, has tweaked the product over time to make a better bullet.

Shot placement is more important anyway, ya bastards.... :wink:
 

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gold dots and hydra shocks are both out of date, but a hollow point is a hollow point. neither are bonded.

i talked to a guy that did some testing with car doors....

hydrashock - went through one door and fragmented on the second
gold dots - same as above
aguila - went through both doors.
hornady TAP - went through both doors with good expansion
winchester ranger - went through both doors with great expansion.
 

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Actually I do know what I am talking about, or to be more specific, the experts on www.tacticalforums.com, know what they are talking about. I am just reporting what the EXPERTS have come up with. Dr. Gary Roberts is a Lt. Commander in the Navy and is a nationally known and recognized ballistics expert. He has done thousands of tests for the military and le around the country. His tests are done with gelatin, not wet telephone books.

The use of gelatin for gathering ballistic info is the accepted media the experts in the ballistic field use for obtaining scientific data, not wet telephone books.

The gentleman whose test you referred to in the link you gave is listed as a gunsmith, a gunsmith instructor and an armorer. There is nothing there stating his expertise in ballistics testing. The mere fact that he uses wet telephone books instead of the preferred and accepted media is enough to make me suspicious of his "expertise."

I would urge you to go to the site above, then to the terminaleffects forum. Go to the search at the top and type in service pistol calibers. You will find sufficient SCIENTIFIC info to make an intelligent choice. I am not an expert, but I rely on experts in that field to provide me with info so I can make an intelligent choice. Just like I relied on the experts in my field when I was in the academy (a damn long time ago). I was fortunate in that one of the brands they recommended was being used by my former dept., so I have just stuck with it. But, as you will see if you go to the site, there are a number of brands that are recommended.

You probably won't go to the site and that's fine. Stay with Hydra shoks if you wish. I wish you well and if, God forbid you have to fire your gun to defend yourself or others, I certainly hope they work against the guy (s) wearing the jacket and couple of shirts the bullet has to pass thru before it can even begin to put the hurt on the bg. If your lucky, he will be naked.

And like SLCDave said, shot placement is more important. If you can't hit 'em, it doesn't matter if you use a 50cal.

Good luck.
 

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I used to be concerned with what ammo I carried. Now, for the most part, I don't care what brand it is, as long as it feeds right, and goes where I want it to go. Hydra-Shok, Gold Dots, Tap, Golden Sabres, El-Cheapo hollow points from Winchester or Remington, I don't really care. I'm not going to worry if my ammo design is outdated, so long as the powder is fresh.

That's not to say I don't have and use my own personal favorite ammunition, but if all I had were some 135 grain Hydra-Shoks, I wouldn't worry about the technology behind them one bit.
 

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I spent some time reading the DR G posts.He seems to type faster than he can think sometimes.As my daddy use to say,he is a wind bag or his hat band is to tight.People get to wound up on ammo.Just remember that if the LE ammo every body likes zipped thru the human body after expanding it would not be approved by most depts.Some of the first .357 sig rounds produced did that and they were down loaded.I think Black Hills produces some of the highest quality ammo made.The center post was redesigned in the hydra shok some time back.

Ed
 

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I bet if you shoot someone in the head tehy will go down--said in jest. No matter whta you carry shot palcement is always key. I like the hydrashock becuase in my area they are easier to come by and cheaper approx $14 a box of 20. In my back up mags a have a mix of stuff including some ball ammo in case I need to shoot threw something.
 

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I had a good time over the weekend. Nice weather, and I got my bro-in-law away from the Xbox long enough to go shooting with me. I shot the 135 grain Hydra-Shok through denim into water jugs, and it expanded nicely with no fragmentation. I took pictures, but I don't have a digital camera, so I need to finish off the roll of film and get it developed. As far as performance goes, it did a fine job.

I will say that one thing I have found by experience that I do not like about the Hydra-Shok line is that the bullets set back fairly easily with multiple chamberings. I don't know if this is because Federal finds they get better accuracy results with a lighter taper crimp, or whatever the case is, but I have found that they tend to set back rather easily. Bullet setback in the .40 can lead to pressure spikes in an already high-pressure round, and things can potentially get ugly really quick. This isn't the fault of the bullet, per se, but the assembly on Federal's end.
 

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SLCDave said:
I will say that one thing I have found by experience that I do not like about the Hydra-Shok line is that the bullets set back fairly easily with multiple chamberings.
that happens to me with all nickle cased ammo(softer metal)... so i dont buy nickle cased ammo anymore.
 

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therooster said:
SLCDave said:
I will say that one thing I have found by experience that I do not like about the Hydra-Shok line is that the bullets set back fairly easily with multiple chamberings.
that happens to me with all nickle cased ammo(softer metal)... so i dont buy nickle cased ammo anymore.
good to know, maybe i will switch from hydra shoks then?
 

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therooster said:
SLCDave said:
I will say that one thing I have found by experience that I do not like about the Hydra-Shok line is that the bullets set back fairly easily with multiple chamberings.
that happens to me with all nickle cased ammo(softer metal)... so i dont buy nickle cased ammo anymore.
The cases are nickle plated, not entirely nickle.
 
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