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Probably a dumb question, but my old Pappy said if you don't ask, you will never know the answer.

I know both the 30.06 and .308 are 30 caliber. I have heard the .06 is the best all around hunting caliber, and supposedly has a much longer range. According to the way it is loaded, it will work for groundhogs to elephants.

If my history is correct, the M14 was 30.06. Later the military's 30 caliber of choice was (and still is) .308. Does the .308 have some kind of ballistics advantage over the 30.06 in a military setting, or in shorter range situations?

Thanks
Rufus
 

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The M1 Garand, and several other WWII and WWI rifles were .30-06. The M14 was .308.
 

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The .30-'06 because of it's larger case capacity is a more versatile cartrage you can shoot bullets weighing from 110 gr to 220+ grains. The .308 (7.62 MM NATO) has a smaller case capacity , it is a shortened .30-'06 with less body taper and a slightly steeper shoulder, it is limited on the heavier end of the bullet weight spectrum. In military loadings, the two cartridges are almost identical - - - bullet in the 150 gr range - - - velocity in the 2600 FPS range the .308 is just shorter and a little lighter. It's design also lends itself to better performance in automatic weapons and it has a slight accuracy edge over it's larger brother.
 

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Another variation in the weapons disigned to shoot them is...The 30-06 is designed for a long action and the .308 is for a short action.
I think the weight of ammo had something to do with switching to a .308 as well but I cannon back that up. Both are top notch rounds.
 

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ichy_trigger said:
Another variation in the weapons disigned to shoot them is...The 30-06 is designed for a long action and the .308 is for a short action.
I think the weight of ammo had something to do with switching to a .308 as well but I cannon back that up. Both are top notch rounds.



And to add to it, the weapons were becoming lighter and troops more mobile. And with only about 100fps difference between the two rounds, not much was lost. I think the weight advantage comes out to 25-30% more .308s can be carried for the same weight in '06 (if memory serves right).

The .308 (medium duty) served all purposes as well as the '06 in the field. It only gives up a little range with heavier bullets. Plus the FR7-FR8s, CETMEs, and STG/FAL, HK main battle rifles used this caliber and most NATO countries used these weapons. Besides the M1 and BAR kicked pretty good, could you imagine how your shoulder would feel with a full auto HK chambered in '06 weighing only 8 or so pounds! Need a butt pad from hell!
 

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you do know that 30-06 and 308 and many 30cal rifles all use .308 bullet and in some weights such as hornadys 155 is the same and many others just to pic one, only difference is cartridge
 

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fjmjr said:
you do know that 30-06 and 308 and many 30cal rifles all use .308 bullet and in some weights such as hornadys 155 is the same and many others just to pic one, only difference is cartridge
We were talking weight of the loaded ammo, not the bullet weight in grains.
 

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einheit 13 said:
Besides the M1 and BAR kicked pretty good, could you imagine how your shoulder would feel with a full auto HK chambered in '06 weighing only 8 or so pounds! Need a butt pad from hell!
Actually, at a loaded weight of more than 20 pounds, the BAR was a powder puff compared to the Garand in terms of recoil, and they were both pikers when compared to the '03, which hits the eight pound mark and I have fired without a"butt pad from hell" in many matches. Actually the last time I fired my '03-A3 in serious compettition was in a military rifle match in Terrell TX a couple of years ago, and I even beat some of the guys firing Garands. :lol:

I have another pic around here somewhere, of me firing a BAR off the fantail of the ship, just killing wavetops as part of our quarterly qualifications. I'll have to see if I can find it and scan it in.
 

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JimLongley said:
einheit 13 said:
Besides the M1 and BAR kicked pretty good, could you imagine how your shoulder would feel with a full auto HK chambered in '06 weighing only 8 or so pounds! Need a butt pad from hell!
Actually, at a loaded weight of more than 20 pounds, the BAR was a powder puff compared to the Garand in terms of recoil, and they were both pikers when compared to the '03, which hits the eight pound mark and I have fired without a"butt pad from hell" in many matches. Actually the last time I fired my '03-A3 in serious compettition was in a military rifle match in Terrell TX a couple of years ago, and I even beat some of the guys firing Garands. :lol:

I have another pic around here somewhere, of me firing a BAR off the fantail of the ship, just killing wavetops as part of our quarterly qualifications. I'll have to see if I can find it and scan it in.


I was going by what I've seen. I've shot BARs but never a Garand. My Mosins kick pretty good, and thats a lighter caliber(like a .308). The BAR is hand full firing from the shoulder, so since the Garand is lighter, I figured it kicked harder. But I also said that basd on how I shoot, 400-500rds at a time.
 

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From what I've read on the net, the .308 is the more accurate round. Sharpshooters get tighter groups with that round. From what I read, they said that there is a lot of powder in the 30-06 round and the burn is chaotic. Supposedly the .308 round has a more controlled and uniform burn that sends the round out of the barrel better. I have no idea if I read that correctly but thats what I supposed the article was implying.
 

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WELL THE ROUND IS ALMOST 100 YEARS OLD IN ITS MODERN LOADING AND GOES BACK TO 1903 WERE IT STARTED FOR THE 03 SPRINGFIELD FROM A 110gr-220grs IT WORKS VERY WELL I OWN A .30.06 RIFLE AND USED ALL KINDS OF LOADS THROUGH IT. I WAS TOLD BY A LONG TIME RELOADER AND SHOOTER,IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE NECK OF THE ROUND, THE NECK OF THE .30.06 IS ALMOST TWICE AS LONG AS THE CALIBER DIA. YOU GET A BETTER HOLD ON THE BULLET! SO YOU GET MAX PRESSURE FROM A BETTER HOLD. WERE THE .300 WIN MAG HAS VERY LITTLE NECK AREA JUST AT A CALIBERS DIA. THE ONLY THING IS THE .300 WIN MAG HOLDS MORE POWDER AND MOST OF THE TIME PEOPLE I KNOW RELOAD THE .300 WIN MAG USE A CRIMP AND OR BRING UP THE BULLET JUST TO TOUCH THE RIFLING TO GET PROPER IGN. ALL IN ALL BOTH ARE GOOD ROUNDS, I LEAN TOWARDS THE .30.06 100 YEARS OF SHOOTING HISTORY IN HUNTING AND BATTLE YOU CANT GO WRONG!!! MIKE B.
 

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Don't even go thier, the x54r is the OLDEST caliber still used by armed forces, and it started as a "black powder" round and used "spitzer" bullet design after it entered the "smokeless powder" relm. I like the .308, the '06 is great, but a good .308 round (hand load or factory match) CAN equal and surpass the the mighty '06. And remember the original 1903 round was not a 30-'06 but a .30-'03 that wasn't much more then the 30-40Krag it was supposed to replace. The '06 round is good but the .308 gives a little more choice in weapons. Mainly due to the fact that if you choose a bolt action, any "shortramp/short action" can be chambered for it. Thats why a lot of military rifles that have been converted use that caliber. I have a 1916 Remington Mosin chambered in '06 and one that "bubba" got a hold of (actually a 'smith did it) in .308 and thier isn't much difference in MOAs. The .308 is the top dog to 800m then it starts to open up. The only flaw I can find with the '06 is that it heats up a lot quicker and I had to shim the barrel to counter act that.
 

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I AM HAPPY!! WE CAN SHOOT WHAT WE WANT, ITS AMERICA WHAT EVER WORKS FOR US ALL!! YOU IN YOUR THING ME IN MINE, IST ALL ABOUT THE SPORT AND HAVING FUN DOING IT M.B.
 

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The long and short of it is this. The 30-'06 was a cartridge designed with a rebated rim to be more easily fed into guns for the military. This cartridge was intended to (and did) replace the 30-40 Krag round that was used by the military at that time. If you'll look at the "low end" loadings of the 30-06 you'll find that it was about equal ballistically to the Krag; however, it was very quickly apparent that it could be sped up and was never (to my knowledge) loaded at that speed. The 30-06 was designed for automatic rifles (orginally the Maxim machine gun ... I think). When this cartridge came out there was a development of a lot of new technology, including the semi-automatic military service rifle (designation M-1) designed by Garand. With that you have millions of guns that are chambered in 30-06 from 1906 to present day. Hence the variation of bullets that are able to be shot from it.

The 30-06 was not a perfect cartridge though by any stretch. It was a LONG cartridge. The military developed the 7.62 Nato round (.308 Win) for a short action 30 caliber with the same ballistic characteristics, in a smaller package. In the civilian world though it does not have the same level of uses because you cannot load the longer bullets in the 308 because of case/cartridge length. However, the smaller "varmint" bullets can be loaded without a problem. The maximum length allowed in most 308 rifles will prevent the use of heavy (220+gr) bullets, but you CAN use 180gr and 200 gr bullets at the same published velocities of the equivalent 30-06. The difference is that the 308 was designed to use a MUCH HIGHER PRESSURE.

Both guns are great for ALMOST anything you can hunt in North America, and thanks to both of these cartridges there is a plethora of bullet options for 30 caliber (90-250+gr ... flat, sptz, sm-sptz, hollow-point, X, bonded, moly, ballistic-tip, FMJ, round, etc.). If you can dream up a bullet design, somebody makes it in 30 cal, I'll carry both of these hunting this year, and will not have a problem trusting both.
 

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THATS WHAT I AM SAYING THERE IS A GOOD, BAD TO ALL THINGS I LIKE THE ROUND BECAUSE OF THE HISTORY, TWO WORLD WARS, THE FORGOTTEN WAR AND SOME USE IN NAM. IT HAS A GREAT HISTORY AND DONE THE JOB WELL, MY GRAND FATHER MADE IT THROUGH THE WAR WITH ITS HELP, WE WERE HUNTING TWO YEARS AGO AND CAME ACROSS A BIG BLACK BEAR IT GOT MAD AND CAME AFTER MY FRIEND AND I FROM 70 YARDS OR SO MY FRIEND TOOK HIS SHOT WITH A .30-06 USING A 220gr BARNS SOLID, THE BEAR WENT DOWN LIKE A $5.00 HOOKER!! IT WAS SCARY AND COOL AT THE SAME TIME. I CAN SAY I AM GLAD WE HAD IT!! LIKE I SAID ITS ALL ABOUT THE SPORT AND HAVING FUN DOING IT
 
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