[kalford]

I would like to stockpile one bullet profile, wieght for my 2 308 rifles. Basically what I am looking for is a round capable of 1 moa out of my Howa 1500, that will still cycle through my semi auto Saiga. Would ballistic tips, hollow points be of any benifit? The purpose would be for hunting and shtf situations. I know that I would have to run any suggestions through my rifles to verify that the combinations produce the desired results, but am interested in others thoughts, experiences on the matter.

Thanks in advance, Ken

 

[fredj338]

Rifles are very specific about what bullets & loads they like. For extreme accuracy, start w/ a match grade bullet, 168gr is pretty universal for the 308. If you can get best accuracy with that, then buy a bunch. The Sierra MK is the bench mark, but Hornady A-max, Speer or Nosler match all may do well. The Nosler BalTip can be accurate, a bit better for hunting, but in a SHTF, any bullet will do if you can.

 

[Noah Mercy]

Main advantage to Ballistic Tips (as well as other polymer tipped projectiles) is consistent ballistic coefficient. The tips don't get battered in the magazine by recoil, so each bullet is pretty much the same length as the one before it. That and the long streamlined shape help ensure more consistent performance at long range. The tips can also aid in initializing expansion. FWIW, the Noslers do seen to be one of the more accurate bullets available that are also suitable for hunting.

For economy, I would consider good old Remington Core Lokts. They're fairly inexpensive, perform great at 308 velocities, and can produce some surprisingly small groups when a good load is found. They may not shoot as well at 600+ yards as the polymer tipped slugs, but inside that they should work quite well.

Hollow points tend to be good at long range as far as grouping. Most BTHPs are match bullets, but a couple companies offer this design in a hunting bullet...Sierra and Berger immediately come to mind. (Yes, Barnes are BTHP, but from personal experience expansion at long range from a 308 can be iffy, so I don't personally recommend them.) I have not shot the Berger or Sierra hunting BTHPs on game, however, so I don't know how well they perform at longer range.

 

[mongovb]

You need to figure out what twist your guns barrels have. If they have similar twists, it might be easier to determine bullet weight. My custom Mauser has a 1 in 10 and loves 175gr Nosler HPBT bullets and shoots half [email protected] yards so far. Thats the best Ive shot ever. I reload so it is a lot cheaper. Someone correct me if Im wrong, but, the faster the twist you have the larger the bullet you want. I would see if you could find some hunting rounds in the 168gr range and see how they fly from your Howa. Its a good gun and you maybe surprised. Match ammo is expensive. Unless you are trying to pick off man sized targets at 600 yards, I dont think I would be to fixated on shooting 1 MOA.

 

[fredj338]

You need to figure out what twist your guns barrels have. If they have similar twists, it might be easier to determine bullet weight. My custom Mauser has a 1 in 10 and loves 175gr Nosler HPBT bullets and shoots half [email protected] yards so far. Thats the best Ive shot ever. I reload so it is a lot cheaper. Someone correct me if Im wrong, but, the faster the twist you have the larger the bullet you want. I would see if you could find some hunting rounds in the 168gr range and see how they fly from your Howa. Its a good gun and you maybe surprised. Match ammo is expensive. Unless you are trying to pick off man sized targets at 600 yards, I dont think I would be to fixated on shooting 1 MOA.

Yes & no on the twist rate. A faster twist is needed to stabalize longer bullets, but I have never seen a bullet over stabalized by shooting shorter bullets in faster twists. I have a 260AI, 1-8 twist, setup for the long 142grSMK. It is quite accurate w/ the short 85grSierra, like 0.3MOA accurate out to 300yds anyway.

 

[mongovb]

Yes & no on the twist rate. A faster twist is needed to stabalize longer bullets, but I have never seen a bullet over stabalized by shooting shorter bullets in faster twists. I have a 260AI, 1-8 twist, setup for the long 142grSMK. It is quite accurate w/ the short 85grSierra, like 0.3MOA accurate out to 300yds anyway.

Yea I think your right, however, I think with length comes weight. And yes I dont believe a bullet can be over stabilized, but, I have heard that a lighter bullet can fly apart in a faster twist barrel.

 

[fredj338]

Yea I think your right, however, I think with length comes weight. And yes I dont believe a bullet can be over stabilized, but, I have heard that a lighter bullet can fly apart in a faster twist barrel.

Bullet wt has nothing to do with twist rate. With heavier lead core bullets, you often get longer bullets. Twist rate is about bullet length. With the ligher all copper Barnes, bullets will be longer for their wt.
Yes, some bullet can come apart, but I have only seen this at vel above 3500fps, nothing runs that fast in a 308 or even 300winmag. I used to be able to get 40gr bullets to come apart in my 220swift, but I was pushing them beyond 4000fps. Faster twist is always better IMO, gives you options.

 

[mongovb]

Bullet wt has nothing to do with twist rate. With heavier lead core bullets, you often get longer bullets. Twist rate is about bullet length. With the ligher all copper Barnes, bullets will be longer for their wt.
Yes, some bullet can come apart, but I have only seen this at vel above 3500fps, nothing runs that fast in a 308 or even 300winmag. I used to be able to get 40gr bullets to come apart in my 220swift, but I was pushing them beyond 4000fps. Faster twist is always better IMO, gives you options.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. I haven't come across any all copper bullets yet. Might have to try and get my hands on some.

 

[fredj338]

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. I haven't come across any all copper bullets yet. Might have to try and get my hands on some.

They have a following among the hunting community, but are expensive, not plinking bullets for sure & can be a bit more finicky in some rifles. Typically you can drop one bullet wt in that caliber for sim length bullet when using monometals. For pure target work, too expensive, a match grade bullet will likely shoot better, cheaper & can be used to hunt w/ in a pinch.

 

[kalford]

Thanks for the info. I'll dig out the owners manuals to look for twist rates, but being as the Howa is already sighted in for Cor Lokt, I will probably just verify function, accuracy in the Saiga. I'll follow up with results, but am still open to opinions, suggestions.

 

[boltstop]

Remember in all of this - seating depth will likely be the determining factor for how accurate the rounds will be. I don't know what the throat is like in the Howa, but the mag length is likely some small depth over 2.800", which may be a touch long in the Saiga.

Go to Sniper's Hide Reloading and read all the primers there on how to build a load. You may find like I did that the only thing that really shoots well is a bullet seated 0.010" off the lands, which is WAAAAYYY too long to load into a .308 magazine of either a semi-auto rifle or an unmodified bolt gun.

Damn Remington - damn them to HELL, for putting what feels like 2' of throat in my PSP.

My choices are: 1.) Single load nice long rounds 2.) buy $400 worth of bottom metal and mags that take long cartridges, and a new stock 3.) have my chamber cut back correctly, or 4.) put up with 1.5 MOA handloads <rolleyes> .

 

[Jack the Toad]

Have you tried the 168 gr OTM for the M1A from Federal ? It is marked 7.62X51 and is made to cycle the semi auto M1A. The velocity listed on the box is identicle to the Federal Gold Medal .308. The bullet is a hollow point BT 168 gr. that looks to be the same Sierra Match King used in the Gold Medal. It shoots very well from my bolt action.

 

[fredj338]

Go to Sniper's Hide Reloading and read all the primers there on how to build a load. You may find like I did that the only thing that really shoots well is a bullet seated 0.010" off the lands, which is WAAAAYYY too long to load into a .308 magazine of either a semi-auto rifle or an unmodified bolt gun.
<rolleyes> .

I find the whole 0.10" off the lands thing rpetty generic. One thing I have learned loading for a dozen or more diff rifles, they all like what they like. Seating 0.10" off the lands may work, may not, pretty bullet & bbl specific, but a good place to start if your mag length allows it. Some bullets, like the Barnes monometals, like to be well off the lands for best accuracy. I would expect sim results form some of the newer Hornady & Nosler monometals too. SOlid copper is not very compressable & likes a little run into the lands.