Titegroup + 45 ACP 230 gr Plated. Need Help.

Discussion in 'The Ammo Can' started by ChinStrap40, Jul 9, 2012.

  1. ChinStrap40

    ChinStrap40 XDTalk Member

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    Hello all,

    I just got my 45 acp dies from midway and its time to start reloading! I use titegroup for reloading 9mm and will be using it for my 45 acp loads as well.

    I have consulted my hornady reloading book. it suggests 5.1 gr MAX for 230 gr LRN. I will be loading 230 gr. plated RN bullets (i know to use lead data for the plated bullets)

    I have found a few load suggestions on other websites/forums, but i wanted to ask my fellow XD guys and gals and get their input.

    If anyone has any loads they wouldn't mind sharing or any advice, i would greatly appreciate it!

    Steve
     
  2. M27

    M27 XDTalk Member

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    I looked at my hornady, and lyman books and they both say 5.1 while hodgdon say a max of 4.8. So I didn't go above 4.8 when I did my test loads.

    In the end I liked 4.6 with an OAL of 1.275"
     
  3. scooterj

    scooterj XDTalk 500 Member

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    Titegroup burns really hot and fast and gives a snappy recoil impulse. Give Winchester Super Target a try. You'll be happier with it than Titegroup.
     
  4. chb119

    chb119 XDTalk 500 Member

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    What do your other reloading books state? Compare the amounts and work your way up to what you like. Be very leary of what you hear or see on a forum, you do not know their expertise or lack there of.
     
  5. Roklok

    Roklok XDTalk 100 Member

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    I understand you wanting to stay with the same powder for all your reloading. Sometimes it is best to have more than one powder, and I would suggest 4.7 grains of Bullseye for 230 grain jacketed or plated bullets.
     
  6. fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

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    See, now there is a smart shooter.;) IF you gave me 8# of TG, I would sell it cheap & buy WST all day, every day.
     
  7. ChinStrap40

    ChinStrap40 XDTalk Member

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    thanks everyone for the input.

    i suppose it is a bit of stubborness to not want to try other powders. im still new to the whole reloading game. i can admit that i have wanted to try W231...can anyone tell me more about Winchester WST and 231?
     
  8. oldgunfan

    oldgunfan XDTalk Newbie

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    I Haven't had the best luck with 45acp and titgroup and have had really bad luck with berry's. If you check the diameter you will find they are 451' but they made of soft lead and lead is normally 452' , so berry's in my old ser 70 colt and my S&W 625 they tumble. I gess they don't grip the rifleing enough. as for titegroup 5 grns would be ok but I would use WST or W231, bullseye is great but it's very dirty and smells like someone pissed on your gun.
     
  9. M27

    M27 XDTalk Member

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    It seams like most post in this thread seam to really not like titegroup for 45.

    Personally I really like it. I have almost gone through about 8 lbs since the first of the year and about half of that has been with 45.

    I have not used WST but I have used 231, It is good for slower velocities but I personally don't like it much for 45

    my personal opinion on what you should do, make some test loads with titegroup and shoot 'em. If you don't like it, then go grab a different powder.
     
  10. fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

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    Berrys' makes both 0.451" & 0.452", so double check when buying. I have no issue but cost w/ plated bullets. If you are a 45acp loader & don't like WST, I will buy it from you, you just have to figure out how to get it to me.;)
    W231 is a bit slower than WST, good volume/wt, burns a bit smokey w/ lead bullets. WST is cleaner burning w/ a bit better volume/wt, about 1.5x that of TG & burns cooler than TG. Did I mention how much I dislike TG? BE, another powder I would not use if given free, just too damn dirty. It was one of the 1st smokeless powders & I don't think they have ever changed the formula, one step above black powder IMO, probably why Jack likes it so much.
     
  11. scooterj

    scooterj XDTalk 500 Member

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    231 is one of the dirtiest powders for reduced loads in any caliber.
    Most all powders will burn cleaner when the pressures are higher.
     
  12. M27

    M27 XDTalk Member

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    I agree, titegroup is the same way. Clean when hot, dirty when slow. But max loads of 231 with a 230gn bullet may not or barely reaches 800fps is what I was trying to explain.
     
  13. fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

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    Says who? I have run a few #s of W231 in the day, it easily makes ball equiv 830fps w/o getting to max. TG will reach max pressures sooner than W231 in most calibers.
     
  14. oldgunfan

    oldgunfan XDTalk Newbie

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    +1 on that. I don't know what he's be smokin but just about every champion shooter in 45 uses or has used W231, They may use WST now but if you ask them not one pro will say anything bad about W231. check your speer manual says 230grn gold dot 6.2 grns for 858fps hummm sounds good to me.
     
  15. Dirty Rod

    Dirty Rod XDTalk 3K Member Founding Member

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    Agreed. The Hodgdon site that shows 832 and 834 for LRN and FMJ FP. My results with 230gr RN plated are ~750fps at 5.2 and 815-820 at 5.6. Lyman suggests 849fps at a 5.8 max load.
     
  16. yoteman

    yoteman XDTalk 100 Member

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    I have to agree with the group of people that aren't so impressed by Titegroup. I bought a pound to try it out in my 9mm with 125gr. bullets. While it is okay it does not group as well as the Unique loads I used. I like the Unique powder for my 40cal. 165 grain bullets and like I said earlier the 9 with 125gr. bullets. On the plus side for Titegroup it sure does meter well with spot check loads rarely being more than a tenth of a grain off of where I set it. I am pretty sure I have bought my last pound of TG and will use it with the 9mm until it is gone.
     
  17. fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

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    Never too late to come over from the dark side. Put the TG on the table & back away. Good job, now go buy some WST.;)
     
  18. JustSomeGuy

    JustSomeGuy XDTalk 2K Member

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    Like others have mentioned, Titegroup runs REALLY hot compared to other powders. In a long course of fire, I once melted off a front sight using it in .40 cal. I had bought an 8lb jug of the stuff a few years ago on the advice of some IPSC guys and I still have over 7lbs of it left! I now use it only for minor if I am going to use up some of those "green" leadless primers I got during the "primer crises" a couple of years ago. It will work with those when other powders will not reliably light up.

    WST is pretty good... but reverse temperature sensitive, so if you load towards the max and you shoot when it is near freezing it may be a bit over max pressure. Outside of that, it burns clean, works well with lead bullets, and meters pretty well. I tend more towards medium speed powders, of which there are plenty to choose from.

    As to the fellow who got tumbling from his plated bullets... The only time I have heard of this happening was when the bullet was over-crimped, thus breaking the plating when the bullet was fired. Over-crimping a plated bullet plays havoc with the thin plating and should be avoided. In most cases, you only want to return the case diameter at the mouth to factory spec. The case itself, if properly sized, will hold the bullet in place without relying on the case mouth for extra grip.

    But... Like Fred said, since the price of plated bullets is nearly the same or indeed greater than some jacketed bullets, it seems likely that most people will opt for the jacketed ones in most instances. Plain ol' lead bullets work just fine too, and are a lot cheaper whether bought or self cast. In a .45 for target work, lead is hard to beat!
     
  19. fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

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    If ever there was a semiauto designed to shoot lead bullets, it's the 45acp/ The pressure & vel is right in the sweet spot for terrific results & little fuss getting there. Not only are the bullets cheaper, you are also using less pwoder for each round, so your shooting is cheaper still. Cast your own, you shoot cheaper than 22lr. Casting though is going the way of other dinosaur hobbies though as cheap/free lead is disapearing quickly. Yep, thank a liberal for that one too.
     
  20. yoteman

    yoteman XDTalk 100 Member

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    Fred, you are correct, I should just shelf it and forget it. My Dad grew up during the depression and he would never allow anything like that. The stuff does make the gun go boom and the lead go forward. If he were still alive he would tell me what a fool I was for not using it. As long as it does that I am willing to put up with the stuff. Loaded about 500 rounds with it so far and unfortunately still have a good bunch of it yet to go. I guess it is inspiring me to shoot more just to use it up. Perhaps I have a little, or maybe a lot of my Dad in me.
     

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