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Thinking of buying my first AR.

4K views 51 replies 14 participants last post by  Powerman 
#1 ·
I'm looking at the M&P sport 2. I can get one today for $500. Seen nothing but positive reviews. I'm also looking at about all Colt models. Could somebody educate me on the 1-9 twist vs 1-7 twist? Also , i actually shoot a rifle left handed although i am right-handed. I'm left eye dominant. Are both or either of these models able to be set up for a left handed shooter?
 
#2 ·
Unless you specifically look for an ambidextrous or left-handed-shooter setup, you will simply need to adapt yourself to operating the control surfaces of the AR as a lefty. Plenty of people do it, and there's a very well laid-out and time-proven set of manipulation skills for you to emulate, adopt/adapt, and master.

There are also specific aftermarket accessories that can make the righty-centric AR platform a bit more lefty friendly, such as various ambidextrous magazine releases, safety levers, and charging handles. Some require more work for install than others, and this is item-specific.

In terms of twist-rate, "Mil-Spec" is 1:7, which tends to favor heavier/longer bullets. Meanwhile, both 1:8 and 1:9 are more commonly seen on the consumer (also called "commercial") side of the equation, but in-reality, exactly what your specific gun (barrel) will shoot best is an unique determinant as based on that specific and unique barrel (i.e. the one that is in YOUR gun, not the one that's in any other person's M&P Sport 2) and its relationship with any particular make/model of ammo.

200 yards and in, for anything from range plinking to dynamic "tactical" training classes typically will find that the limits of the shooter and his/her use of their chosen sighting system will be reached before the capabilities of the ammo is called into question. However, if you are shooting for bragging rights or have a more demanding application in-mind (i.e. varmint hunting), you will want to take some time after you purchase your gun and really do your homework in trying out different ammo, so that you can find one that your gun not only feeds/functions well with, but also produces the level of accuracy/precision you are looking for.

Currently, prices are down across-the-board for AR-15 carbines, and it's a buyer's market.

Bare-bones hobby-grade guns can readily be had for the entry price that you've noted, while at the $800 level, you'll find ones that are pretty nicely dressed-up, and you'll even start seeing bare-bones duty-grade guns. The M&P Sport 2 isn't a bad buy, but resist kneejerking a purchase simply because it falls under some magic price-point. ;) Consider what you would like to do with the gun and consider its purchase an investment. In today's market, just a little reach can net you a whole lot more.
 
#3 ·
Unless you specifically look for an ambidextrous or left-handed-shooter setup, you will simply need to adapt yourself to operating the control surfaces of the AR as a lefty. Plenty of people do it, and there's a very well laid-out and time-proven set of manipulation skills for you to emulate, adopt/adapt, and master.

There are also specific aftermarket accessories that can make the righty-centric AR platform a bit more lefty friendly, such as various ambidextrous magazine releases, safety levers, and charging handles. Some require more work for install than others, and this is item-specific.

In terms of twist-rate, "Mil-Spec" is 1:7, which tends to favor heavier/longer bullets. Meanwhile, both 1:8 and 1:9 are more commonly seen on the consumer (also called "commercial") side of the equation, but in-reality, exactly what your specific gun (barrel) will shoot best is an unique determinant as based on that specific and unique barrel (i.e. the one that is in YOUR gun, not the one that's in any other person's M&P Sport 2) and its relationship with any particular make/model of ammo.

200 yards and in, for anything from range plinking to dynamic "tactical" training classes typically will find that the limits of the shooter and his/her use of their chosen sighting system will be reached before the capabilities of the ammo is called into question. However, if you are shooting for bragging rights or have a more demanding application in-mind (i.e. varmint hunting), you will want to take some time after you purchase your gun and really do your homework in trying out different ammo, so that you can find one that your gun not only feeds/functions well with, but also produces the level of accuracy/precision you are looking for.

Currently, prices are down across-the-board for AR-15 carbines, and it's a buyer's market.

Bare-bones hobby-grade guns can readily be had for the entry price that you've noted, while at the $800 level, you'll find ones that are pretty nicely dressed-up, and you'll even start seeing bare-bones duty-grade guns. The M&P Sport 2 isn't a bad buy, but resist kneejerking a purchase simply because it falls under some magic price-point. ;) Consider what you would like to do with the gun and consider its purchase an investment. In today's market, just a little reach can net you a whole lot more.
Thanks for the explanation on the twist rate. Yep , i get where you're coming from.
 
#4 ·
TSI has hit a lot of it. This is a great time to be in the AR market!! There are lots of good guns for under $750 right now.... the S&W, Windham, Core, Stag, Ruger, etc, etc,.... and the "premium" AR's have come down a bit as well..... even loaded Colts can be found for quite a bit under $1000 now.

I will second TSI's comments on left/right hand shooting. I run my AR both left and right pretty much ambidextrously now. A couple of things I put on may be just considered "Mall Ninja stuff" but they do make it easier. (Ambi safety / extended "Raptor" charge handle / bolt release similar to the Magpul "BAD" lever). Whether running open or suppressed, open iron sights or red-dot, right vs left hand shooting with the AR is pretty easy once you get some time on the gun. I think you will like it and really there is no need for a specific "lefty" gun unless you just want to put down some extra $$ on it. (I think Stag is one of the few doing a lefthand AR.)
 
#7 ·
The only "left hand" ARs are left side ejection. They are not hard to come by. But as a lefty I see no reason at all for one. First ejection doesn't cause too many problems, and right side port is actually better for other stuff.

The AR is actually very lefty friendly, and some things are even better. I don't need silly "bad levers" for bolt release. Left side is perfect. I always run enhanced bolt catch... They are like $20. I don't like the pointy nub.

Many already come with ambi safeties. BAD ASS levers are nice, but you can use any. Even cheapy ones are still ambi.

The only mag release you need is the Troy lever. End of discussion. Stupid simple install, actually positions mag release better than normal righty release.

Ambi charge handle is nice. Raptor, BMC,.. Many out there. Get what you like. And bam... Ambi AR easy peasy. I usually get what ever, add a couple parts done.
 
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#8 ·
I always run enhanced bolt catch... They are like $20. I don't like the pointy nub
I've really loved the POF Enhanced (on all of my ARs), but recently switched out to the Geissele Maritime on my range/training beater. It really is pretty darned nice....

Many already come with ambi safeties. BAD ASS levers are nice, but you can use any. Even cheapy ones are still ambi.
The Radian (formerly ATXS) Talon is right around $55 for the black version, and is capable of 45/90 throw user-configured. I've got the Battle Arms Development ones on all of my other ARs - including my daughter's 15-22 - with the Talon on my Aero, my "hobby gun," and damn if it isn't actually really nice!

The only mag release you need is the Troy lever. End of discussion. Stupid simple install, actually positions mag release better than normal righty release
The only word of caution with this component is that if you're using a non-standard lower, you can potentially run into troubles with the catch seating all the way, as the ambidextrous function on the left side of the lower uses a wedge to lever the catch away from the magazine. If the lower is not of standard thickness at that area, that "lever-action" will already be in-play, leading to inconsistent locking of the magazine in the magwell.

How do I know?

The hard way, of-course! :lol: The Troy release did not work well with my Battle Arms Development billet lightweight lower - and needed a bit of modification before it finally got lined-up right. ;)

With any Mil-Spec lower, it should work just fine as a drop-in component, and this I've verified with all of my other ARs, since they all wear this same component.
 
#10 ·
Interesting. I haven't had the issue, but not everything is exactly the same.

I have the ambi mega lower. Funny, because the ambi is just the bolt catch. Really nice for righties to not have to use bad levers. But lefty me doesn't even need it.

Recently I was checking out the Sig MPX. Super nice. Ambi bolt catch with enhanced paddles, and a ambi mag release... Like factory built for ambi mag release. It was done really nice. Obviously safety and charge handle... But it was such a nice factory 100% ambi setup... It's just so damn obvious all ARs should come like that. Didn't even know the MCX was the same. Gears are kinda turning...
 
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#12 ·
I can't even believe people still do that. No, I wasn't purified. It's funny how lefties are generally an big. Has nothing to do with gift, we flippin have to be living in a right hand world.

All sports and fighting I do right handed. I remember being southpaw as a kid. I didn't even find out I was not southpaw till my 30s. I have no idea when I switched. Nobody made me or taught me. I just assumed. Found out doing martial arts. Tried snowboarding goofy footed but it's impossible. I can't do any sports southpaw. I shoot lefty because I'm left eye dominant. That has never changed. Lefties are all screwed up.
 
#13 ·
I just recently bought a M&P sport 2 and I think it's a great all around AR. I have a "high end" AR I built, and I also have a Colt 6920. The M&P is going to be a great choice for you to get familiar with ARs, and it's not going to give you any problems when it comes to reliability. I'm left handed, and I have learned to adapt to shooting any gun/rifle left handed.

I think the nice thing about starting with a "value" AR is that over time you will want another one, and by starting with the lower price point you will not waste a lot of money on things you don't really want when you buy your next one...and you will buy another at some point...it's just the way it is. Whatever AR you decide to get, make a commitment to give the rife a good run. Shoot 1,000 rounds through your first rifle before you head back to the store for another one. That will give you plenty of time to figure out what's what with the AR.

Look at Wolf Gold for your ammo choice. The stuff is cheap right now, and it shoots great through all 3 of my ARs...from the "basic" S&W to my "high end" rifle.
Let us know what you end up with, and post some pics when you get it!
 
#14 ·
I just recently bought a M&P sport 2 and I think it's a great all around AR. I have a "high end" AR I built, and I also have a Colt 6920. The M&P is going to be a great choice for you to get familiar with ARs, and it's not going to give you any problems when it comes to reliability. I'm left handed, and I have learned to adapt to shooting any gun/rifle left handed.

I think the nice thing about starting with a "value" AR is that over time you will want another one, and by starting with the lower price point you will not waste a lot of money on things you don't really want when you buy your next one...and you will buy another at some point...it's just the way it is. Whatever AR you decide to get, make a commitment to give the rife a good run. Shoot 1,000 rounds through your first rifle before you head back to the store for another one. That will give you plenty of time to figure out what's what with the AR.

Look at Wolf Gold for your ammo choice. The stuff is cheap right now, and it shoots great through all 3 of my ARs...from the "basic" S&W to my "high end" rifle.
Let us know what you end up with, and post some pics when you get it!
Part of me says just buy the Colt 6920 but thats not in the budget right now. Part of me says get the Sport 2 because it will be all the gun you ever need for what you plan on doing with it. Price point is great at the moment also. This rifle is going to be used for all around fun. Not really tactical or home defense. Just shooting and possibly set up for hunting at some point. Mostly plinking. As far as ammo goes , i like buying the cheapest available. So i want a gun that handles that philosophy well. As far as upgrades that i would do to the Sport 2, they would be minimal and based less on performance and more on comfort.
 
#15 ·
Comfort is where all the money goes anyway. I mean yes you can buy higher grade setups and spend more money... But all the budget buys people change out furniture and parts and then you might as well build your own. That's how it usually goes.

Either one will serve your needs plenty. They both work just fine. These days you really can't go wrong. You really have to go out of your way to get crappy stuff. Getting an AR that works is not hard. It's just all the other stuff that costs, like every thing else.

One thing... And this is what gets everyone... Budget buys are not cheap. Doesn't matter the hobby, people buy cheap, then buy again cause it's not right. Buy once cry once.

I have no need for multiple ARs for the same purpose. I have one in 5.56, and one in 6.8. Like you said, you don't need professional grade... Do your due diligence and find what you want. Prices are cheap right now. Everything is down. No point on "settling" now just to buy again later.
 
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#16 ·
Comfort is where all the money goes anyway. I mean yes you can buy higher grade setups and spend more money... But all the budget buys people change out furniture and parts and then you might as well build your own. That's how it usually goes.

Either one will serve your needs plenty. They both work just fine. These days you really can't go wrong. You really have to go out of your way to get crappy stuff. Getting an AR that works is not hard. It's just all the other stuff that costs, like every thing else.

One thing... And this is what gets everyone... Budget buys are not cheap. Doesn't matter the hobby, people buy cheap, then buy again cause it's not right. Buy once cry once.

I have no need for multiple ARs for the same purpose. I have one in 5.56, and one in 6.8. Like you said, you don't need professional grade... Do your due diligence and find what you want. Prices are cheap right now. Everything is down. No point on "settling" now just to buy again later.
That is always the kicker! lol
 
#17 ·
Comfort is where all the money goes anyway. I mean yes you can buy higher grade setups and spend more money... But all the budget buys people change out furniture and parts and then you might as well build your own. That's how it usually goes.

Either one will serve your needs plenty. They both work just fine. These days you really can't go wrong. You really have to go out of your way to get crappy stuff. Getting an AR that works is not hard. It's just all the other stuff that costs, like every thing else.

One thing... And this is what gets everyone... Budget buys are not cheap. Doesn't matter the hobby, people buy cheap, then buy again cause it's not right. Buy once cry once.

I have no need for multiple ARs for the same purpose. I have one in 5.56, and one in 6.8. Like you said, you don't need professional grade... Do your due diligence and find what you want. Prices are cheap right now. Everything is down. No point on "settling" now just to buy again later.
Comfort is where all the money goes anyway. I mean yes you can buy higher grade setups and spend more money... But all the budget buys people change out furniture and parts and then you might as well build your own. That's how it usually goes.

Either one will serve your needs plenty. They both work just fine. These days you really can't go wrong. You really have to go out of your way to get crappy stuff. Getting an AR that works is not hard. It's just all the other stuff that costs, like every thing else.

One thing... And this is what gets everyone... Budget buys are not cheap. Doesn't matter the hobby, people buy cheap, then buy again cause it's not right. Buy once cry once.

I have no need for multiple ARs for the same purpose. I have one in 5.56, and one in 6.8. Like you said, you don't need professional grade... Do your due diligence and find what you want. Prices are cheap right now. Everything is down. No point on "settling" now just to buy again later.
So what is the consensus ? Buy the Sport or wait and get a 6920?
 
#20 ·
Interesting. I haven't had the issue, but not everything is exactly the same.

I have the ambi mega lower. Funny, because the ambi is just the bolt catch. Really nice for righties to not have to use bad levers. But lefty me doesn't even need it.

Recently I was checking out the Sig MPX. Super nice. Ambi bolt catch with enhanced paddles, and a ambi mag release... Like factory built for ambi mag release. It was done really nice. Obviously safety and charge handle... But it was such a nice factory 100% ambi setup... It's just so damn obvious all ARs should come like that. Didn't even know the MCX was the same. Gears are kinda turning...
I was semi-tempted to get the Sig MPX at the Gander going out of bu
So what is the consensus ? Buy the Sport or wait and get a 6920?
I'd buy the SW and pass on the Colt. QC with the Colt is iffy.
 
#18 ·
 
#21 · (Edited)
I'd be tempted by the Prancing Horse, but as mentioned by @Snaphook, Colt's QC can be spotty.

I've bought and owned (still own a Del-Ton) lower tier/entry level ARs and find them to be quite sufficient.

I've never owned a S&W AR but I know a cat that does and he's 100% satisfied. You WILL want to change stuff, and it will cost you some dough to do it, but as you progress through it you'll find that even "top tier" weapons will need some adjustments.

IMO the S&W, Ruger, Del-Ton, etc represent a great value. If I was jumping on a plane to Fallujah tonight I might make a different choice... but I'm not, and neither are you.

I've had range-jockey operator wannabes w their Noveske or DD rifles tell me that my rifle(s) are fine as "plinkers". I like to say, "Well no sh*t, man... What exactly do you think we're doing here?".

There's a corallary to something an old-timer said to me when I was a noob trucker in the early 90s... "Don't let the guy behind you drive your truck". Good advice that I've kept with me for over 25 yrs and it applies to sooo much more than just trucking.
 
#27 ·
I also support the idea of the Sport II.

Just throw a good ambi safety and charing handle on. Budget 100-150 for those two parts. Don't want any junky ones.

And a BAD lever.

My two lowers have a BADASS ambi safety, Magpul BAD lever and Troy Industries ambi mag release. The uppers have AXST (now Radian) Raptor charging handles.

The sum of all those parts is about around 250 bucks, but for basic plinking right now, You'd be fine with a simple ambi safety selector you can get for about 30 bucks.
 
#29 ·
$250 bucks an thats all you get? I still need to get a stock , grip handle , sling , quad rail and optics! Whats that , another $500 for a $500 gun? Reminds me of a Hank Williams Jr song. Might as well just buy a BCM or Daniel Defense. Thanks a lot , Dev! A lot of damn help you've been!
 
#30 ·
There are cheaper options for some of the parts, but they're just that. Cheaper.

The Troy mag release is 60-65 dollars but works great. The Battle Arms Development ambi safety runs about that too. The Raptor charging handles seem to have gone up even more because of the demand. It's usually around 85.

There's a lot of ambi stuff on the market now though. You might find some you like more. I'd buy a Phase 5 bolt catch this time around instead of the Magpul bad lever.
 
#33 ·
There are cheaper options for some of the parts, but they're just that. Cheaper.
And Bamaxd9, the thing here is again one of quality.

Some of these components can come under a lot of stress either in their natural-use state or upon stoppage remediation. For example, the charging handle must take on a lot of stress during stoppage-reduction. Skimping on these components, just like skimping on fire-control, is false-economy, as the problems they may incur upon breakage and the cost to replace (remember, however, that the charging handle is considered a wear-unit and is consumable), repeatedly, may well exceed an initial investment in quality.

The Troy mag release is 60-65 dollars but works great.
A lot of us may not like to buy Troy products based on their politics (myself included), Bamaxd9, but one thing that's undeniable has been their quality - and in this case, the Troy product is very well thought out.

That said, there are also a lot of other excellent options on the market.

Whatever you do, be sure that the components you retrofit with - and this includes other items as well - are compatible not only with your upper/lower, but also, critically, with each other. For example, the Norgon ambi-release and Geissele Maritime Bolt Catch probably will not play well together.

The Battle Arms Development ambi safety runs about that too. The Raptor charging handles seem to have gone up even more because of the demand. It's usually around 85.
While the BAD ambis rarely go on-sale, the Radian Raptor actually goes on sale regularly, discounted to about $70. I actually just saw a sale on these this past Father's Day.

If you can hold-out, Bamaxd9, I would do so - the next sale should be along in just a couple of weeks, with the 4th.

Jonnyuma noted the BCM charging handles, and they are very stout, as well as are very nicely priced. They're definitely worth considering, but like a lot of CH's with the latches reconfigured in the manner that they do it, they may or may not cause you to pinch your finger - if you don't tend to wear gloves when shooting the carbine, I would encourage you to check this out before you buy.
 
#37 ·
I really loved the Mech Armor I had. It's very well thought out. But BMC is readily available and not as expensive. So.... I always thought the Raptor was bulky, but I haven't seen one in person.
 
#36 ·
Well you don't need any of this of course. Like I said, ARs are very lefty friendly as is. Cheap ambi safeties... Plane Jane's, have the same lever on the other side. Some don't like standard thick lever. So, they get BADs or similar. You can get shorter, or thin, or even 45 or 60 throw instead of 90. And you can swap different levers. You can still use thumb, but trigger finger is better. But standard ambis are only $20.

As much as I love Troy mag release, you don't need it. You use your off hand. Speed doesn't really matter plinking. You don't need BAD levers, those are for righties. Enhanced bolt catches are $12-20.

What ever accessories you want, you have to get those for any rifle. Optics you have to purchase regardless. I personally can't stand the A2 front sight/gas block. Flip up sights are another $100-150. And you need a new gas block if you bought a A2 post first. Slings are slings.

So like anything, you can buy it right off the shelf and be happy. You can personalize to your hearts content. You can accessorize with what ever you want. Barbies are cheap. It's all the play houses that rack up the money. The only thing you need is the AR and ammo. How much you want to play is up to you.
 
#39 ·
Well you don't need any of this of course. Like I said, ARs are very lefty friendly as is. Cheap ambi safeties... Plane Jane's, have the same lever on the other side. Some don't like standard thick lever. So, they get BADs or similar. You can get shorter, or thin, or even 45 or 60 throw instead of 90. And you can swap different levers. You can still use thumb, but trigger finger is better. But standard ambis are only $20.

As much as I love Troy mag release, you don't need it. You use your off hand. Speed doesn't really matter plinking. You don't need BAD levers, those are for righties. Enhanced bolt catches are $12-20.

What ever accessories you want, you have to get those for any rifle. Optics you have to purchase regardless. I personally can't stand the A2 front sight/gas block. Flip up sights are another $100-150. And you need a new gas block if you bought a A2 post first. Slings are slings.

So like anything, you can buy it right off the shelf and be happy. You can personalize to your hearts content. You can accessorize with what ever you want. Barbies are cheap. It's all the play houses that rack up the money. The only thing you need is the AR and ammo. How much you want to play is up to you.

This is the trick, Bamaxd9.

Running the AR left-handed really isn't that difficult, and thanks to its years spent on the front lines of our nation's defense, there's some really good folks out there who have really worked through the "how to" of left-handed AR-use, that you can actually really easily do it all, *_WITHOUT_* adding any aftermarket components.

As a matter of fact, I would encourage you to first run the gun without such enhancements.

Instead of spending that initial money on parts, I would instead encourage you to spend it on training - training from someone who actually knows what they are doing with the gun, left-handed, in terms of manipulations.

I would also encourage you to take a step back from the purchase, and instead, before you buy, see if there isn't a local one-day "AR armorer class" that you can take, one that does not require that you bring your own gun. This won't be a by-Hoyle armorer course, but that's not really what you need: what you need is simply someone who really knows what they're talking about to take you through the basics of the platform in terms of its hardware, assembly, function/malfunction, so you will know what to look for *_before_* you spend your hard-earned money.
 
#40 ·
I am left handed. Uncounted AR15, M16 round count. In excess of 25,000++. My eye doctor says I have eyeball erosion. Right hand guns. Over time it adds up.

It depends upon your usage and expectations. We lefties have an advantage with the AR15. All you need is an ambo safety. Every other control can stay OEM.

Like said, now is the time to buy. Stag Arms did make lefty AR15 rifles. The company is in trouble? May not survive? Future LH Stag products may not happen?

I have been waiting for good Stag Arms LH stuff now for 6 months. Kept getting put off. If you can find a used LH Stag Arms AR15, buy it. Add the ambo safety.

Twist rates generally tightens with shorter barrels. A 16" barrel with a 1x7 with a Wilde chamber would be great. You do not need lots of bells and whistles.

Just shoot off the gun and have fun. As a stock built factory gun Stags are great for getting started. I like USGI aluminimumimm 30 rd mags. Brownells has them.

But ... be forewarned that once you jump into the deep water with all the AR15 fun and madness understand there IS NO CURE! Hee hee hee. Come on board!! :)

hundreds of AR15 builds. uncounted M16 rebuilds. long ago, far away. Now old!
 
#46 ·
Invest.

It's worth every penny, even for those who have perfect or beyond-perfect vision, a good set of plano-lens (that's properly impact-rated) eyepro will cut the edge-distortion - and may not even realize that this exists on their non-prescription lenses - that plagues el-cheapo eyepro.

Invest. And once you invest, you'll take good care of them. What's more, the good stuff typically have lenses that are very scratch resistant. Most folks go for years and years before they start seeing scratches.

-----

Went looking at at my LGS and looked at The Saint , Ruger , M&P Sport2, Colt 6920, and Spikes. Must say this has gotten a little hard as far as making decisions. I'm starting to shy away from the Sport 2 because its not as solid as the Saint imo. The Saint is impressive to me. Spikes and Colts are standards in their price range. Both cost less than the Saint at my LGS. Saint is loaded though.
Don't get too fixated on what "feels solid."

This measure is completely subjective, and is often based on weight, which - and trust me that I'm speaking from experience, here, isn't what you really want, unless all that you intend to do with the gun is to shoot it off a bench.

Why am I so emphatic about this?

Because my first AR was an LMT MRP CQB 16 that I, too, "felt was the most solid in the entire store."

Why did it feel so sturdy? Yes, the true-monolitholic upper helped, but it's friggin' near 7 and a half pounds., empty.

At the time, the two leading contenders for me at that shop was a Daniel Defense M4A1 versus this LMT, and while the DDM4A1 of that vintage (c.2011) weighed just north of 6 and 1/2 lbs., it nowhere felt as rigid as the tank that's the LMT MRP. So, with the idea that a "more solid feeling gun must be better," I gladly bought the LMT.

A year later, as I started to ready myself to take carbine classes and thus started dry-practice in-earnest, I quickly came to the realization that weight was the enemy, and went out and bought a DDM4V5LW to use as my primary training/range beater.

Look at it this way - if guys like Steve Fisher and Pat McNamara love lightweight guns, why wouldn't any of us mere mortals? ;)

Both Saint models weigh a around 6 and 2/3 lbs, empty. While that's far from heavy, it's also not light, and this can be subjectively very, very deceptive, particularly when the other guns (M&P Sport-2 and Colt 6920) come in at under 6 and 1/2 lbs.

This, combined with the BCM furniture's solid and wobble-free install into the Delta-ring/endcap and the receiver extension/buffer tube (here, I'm assuming that you're looking at the non-free-floated version, due to cost, noting also that it is the heavier of the two versions, coming in at 6 lbs., 11 oz.) versus "standard furniture" models, I know that this can also give a perception of "solidity" where none truly exists - or, honestly, that it actually matters (which it does not).

Does The Saint's BCM furniture give it an advantage in terms of value-added? I certainly think that it is undeniable that they do - but you must be *_VERY_* realistic with yourself and ask if you will honestly be replacing those components down the road. Because if you do replace them before they're damaged or otherwise rendered inoperable, you're effectively looking at false-economy, and you're instead letting your emotions drive the purchase. If you want to play this game, you should then look at the Colt 6290 MPS-series, with the wonderful Magpul SL furniture that locks up incredibly tight (this is the furniture I use on my Aero hobby-gun, and it truly feels exceptionally solid).

I really have not made up my mind. I love the price $520 of the Sport 2 and also its great reviews. I started out looking at that gun only. The Saint wasn't even being considered but its looking pretty sweet. Just not sure about getting a mid length . I think i can get one of those for between $760-800. Then theres the colt that i can get around $860.. Thats a really decent price for a pretty nice mil spec gun. Not much difference between the Colt and the Spikes and the Spikes is a little more expensive once sights and magpul furniture is factored in. That would cost about $1000. So i guess i'm down to three starter rifles between $500-$900. Deciding between a carbine and a mid length might help a little but then again it might just increase my budget. Not good!!!!!! Need to stay as far under $1000 as i can .
Most modern shooters prefer the midlength gas-system configuration, however, purists will still maintain that the gun should go with original specs: either rifle- or carbine-length gas-systems. In all honesty, particularly for a first-time buyer, this consideration is secondary to simply having a gun that runs properly, and at this price-point, the market has plenty of offerings running either the carbine or midlength system just fine, and it should thus not be a worry.

That said, even being the owner of four XDms and as someone who has said (and written here on this Foru) that he'd have bought a Saint had it been introduced just a couple of months before its debut on the market (at the time, I had purchased an Aero OEM 16" middy specifically as a hobby-gun to take with me to a local armorer class - note that I already had three high-end ARs at that point: I specifically wanted to delve into the guts of a supposed "hobby-grade" gun, while under the eyes of a truly highly regarded gunsmith), I am still somewhat cautious about the reliability/durability - as well as the Q/C of the Springfield AR ( Another Saint owner... ) - to be able to offer a recommendation for it.

It's true that more recent owners have come here with very good reports of their Saints, but honestly, in this field that's overflowing with proven examples, it's nearly impossible to make this recommendation to anyone who is either on a budget (where troubles eat into cost, even as a secondary concern, regardless of warranty coverage) or who is purchasing his/her one-and-only.
 
#43 ·
Went looking at at my LGS and looked at The Saint , Ruger , M&P Sport2, Colt 6920, and Spikes. Must say this has gotten a little hard as far as making decisions. I'm starting to shy away from the Sport 2 because its not as solid as the Saint imo. The Saint is impressive to me. Spikes and Colts are standards in their price range. Both cost less than the Saint at my LGS. Saint is loaded though.
 
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