The magic number (bullet penetration)

Discussion in 'XDTalk Chatter Box' started by Ocean82, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. Ocean82

    Ocean82 XDTalk 5K Member

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    Why is 12 inches considered the magic number for BULLET penetration when 3 inches is the magic number for KNIFE penetration? If a knife can stab an organ 3 inches in, a bullet can hit the same organ 3 inches in.

    I was contemplating this because of some flak I'm catching for using #4 shot in my 12 ga for HD. I chose #4 due to less over-penetration into adjacent apt rooms (I don't want to be a liability/statistic/on evening news). In ballistics tests #4 shot penetrates from 6-10 inches. That's enough to put a lot of pellets into the lungs, heart, liver, etc.
     
  2. yocan

    yocan XDTalk 10K Member Founding Member

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    a knife doesn't get slowed down by clothes/bone it has a driving force behind it.

    a lot of those 12" bullets don't actually go 12" in a person. and if your talking about bleeding you need an exit wound for them to bleed out.

    If your worried about overpenetration an ar15 has more takedown potential than a 9mm and goes through less walls, thats why the military and SWAT teams use it.

    if you want shotgun. #4 birdshot probably won't cut it. maybe for a first round but if they are high you have to break them down. I know many in apartments that have single 0 buckshot or BB but #4 is way too light.
     
  3. Sgt 45

    Sgt 45 XDTalk 100 Member

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    Boy, I'd hate to take a round of #4 shot close in. That being said, I have #4 buck for my shottie (somewhere). I still prefer a good ole .45. I also have a 6.8 SPC but I'd have to know something was up to get it out of the case in time.
     
  4. beitzel15

    beitzel15 XDTalk 3K Member

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    I keep #7 in mine (i think)

    It puts baseball size holes in 2x6's at 10 feet... id imagine it'd lay a hurtin on someone.

    get a saiga 12 with a 20 or 40 round drum mag & fill it full of slug's!!!!
     
  5. Jarhead1987

    Jarhead1987 XDTalk 1K Member

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    You have to have an exit wound to bleed out? (Are you talking GSW or knife wound?)

    I guess when I was an EMT, my instructors had it all wrong! ;-)

    I thought all it took was an entry wound!

    I keep 000 in my shotgun for HD, but I live in a house, not an apt.
     
  6. Ocean82

    Ocean82 XDTalk 5K Member

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    The longest distance I'd be shooting is down my hallway out towards the front door. It's about 10 yards max. Even with #4 shot, I can't imagine it not stopping or killing someone. I don't care about exit wounds or bleeding out, cuz that takes time. I just want the threat stopped. Whether or not he's dead or dies doesn't matter.

    But I still find it ironic that it's 3" for a knife and 12" for a bullet.
     
  7. Cannibul

    Cannibul XDTalk 5K Member Founding Member

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    It's 12" of penetration into ballistics gel.

    Penetrating the skin is equivalent to around 3" alone.

    Shooting through the average adult forearm is equal to around 9-10".
     
  8. Cuda66

    Cuda66 XDTalk 10K Member

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    Knife wounds don't need to go through arms first.

    Bullets do.

    Anyone who thinks that in a real life event that their assailant will be standing with their arms to the side, like a silhouette target, is living in a dream world.
     
  9. john_bud

    john_bud XDTalk 5K Member

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    Why 12"? Dunno, maybe the FBI measured the distance the failed heart shot in the Miami shootout went and added 3" for good measure?
     
  10. apamburn

    apamburn XDTalk 500 Member

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    The FBI did do tests. They concluded that 12" was the optimal penetration distance for a bullet because no matter what angle you shoot a person's torso from, you will penetrate to a vital organ, even if it's from the most obtuse angle imaginable.

    I would think that there are plenty of meth heads and druggies out there whose torsos arent even 8 inches thick. You shoot someone like that from the front, you better bet it's going through. But, no matter the angle from which you shoot, it should (supposedly) hit a vital organ.
     
  11. Groo

    Groo XDTalk 10K Member

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    A knife is trying to hit an artery, a bullet is trying to hit a vital organ.

    #4 buck is pretty weak. I sure wouldn't use it to shoot a buck.
    #1 get you the penatration to get the job done, but it isn't a popular size. so step up to 00, a very popular size, for SD if you actually want to stop someone, or kill a deer for that matter.

    I honestly don't know what #4 buck is good for. killing dogs maybe?
    but I'd take it any day of the week over any bird shot if someone's life is on the line.
     
  12. drmiller

    drmiller XDTalk 100 Member

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    Try pheasants.
     
  13. Groo

    Groo XDTalk 10K Member

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    #4 buck shot is not even close to #4 bird shot.
     
  14. Bluto

    Bluto XDTalk 2K Member

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    <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=338 align=left><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR align=left><TD height=10 vAlign=center colSpan=3></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#ffffff height=58 vAlign=center width=77 align=middle>[​IMG]</TD><TD width=10> </TD><TD class=texto vAlign=top align=left><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD height=15 vAlign=top align=left>#3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth</TD></TR><TR><TD class=texto height=20 vAlign=top width=330 align=left>Various shotgun rounds vs. simulated walls.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
  15. Sgt 45

    Sgt 45 XDTalk 100 Member

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    OO Buck in 3" mag shells has 15 pellets of .33 caliber. #4 Buck in same shell has 41 .25 caliber pellets. As for use, #4 buck is good for geese at longer range. And I expect, people at shorter range.
     

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