The AK is Inherently Inaccurate

Discussion in 'AK-47 Talk' started by Amsdorf, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. May 19, 2017 at 11:39 AM #51
    Jonnyuma

    Jonnyuma XDTalk 5K Member

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    Good stuff, buuut...
    just kidding.
    I like it when old threads come back, especially if they're still relevant.

    I was considering getting an AK variant, but with the prices where they are, I think I'll keep looking for my unicorn... a Ruger Mini-30.
     
  2. May 19, 2017 at 11:49 PM #52
    DevJames

    DevJames XDTalk 15K Member

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    They're certainly combat accurate.

    Won't be winning Camp Perry matches anytime soon though...
     
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  3. May 19, 2017 at 11:52 PM #53
    Cuda66

    Cuda66 XDTalk 20K Member

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    I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a Sig 556R...
     
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  4. May 20, 2017 at 12:57 AM #54
    Jonnyuma

    Jonnyuma XDTalk 5K Member

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    One just went for $900 on GB this morning. That's as cheap as I've seen.
     
  5. May 20, 2017 at 1:10 AM #55
    Cuda66

    Cuda66 XDTalk 20K Member

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    That's a good price.
     
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  6. May 20, 2017 at 10:20 AM #56
    JayhawkNavy02

    JayhawkNavy02 XDTalk 1K Member

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    The 5.45 was developed to mimic 5.56, it is a great round, but I'm not sure what you're trying to express as "velocity blind". The bullet diameters are .221 and .224 respectively and there are significantly more "shapes" in 5.56 than 5.45. Also barrier penetration wasn't the intent of the thread IMO.

    As far as range/accuracy, I believe you and KALASHNIKOV223 have it backwards.

    Take a look at Hornady. I did my best for an apples to apples comparison as I could. A 60gr 5.45x39 Black will drop 58.6" vice 49.7" in 5.56, which is more than 9" over a heavier 62gr 5.56 at 500 yards. Ballistic Coefficient (BC) is slightly better on the 5.45 at .285 vs .274 for 5.56, which provides about a 3% advantage to 5.45 to handle wind, but at the cost of increasing drop by 16% over 5.56.

    Now, heavier bullets are where things change, and at distance for 5.45 against premium 5.56 ammunition like M262 and civilian variants from Federal (SMK) and Black Hills (TMK). At 500 yards the best I could find for 5.45 was the Hornday V-Max, with a BC of .285 and a drop of 58.6" unfortunately out of a 16" barrel, but that is the AK74 length anyway so that's actually more relevant. Compare that to the Black Hills M262 with TMK bullets, which have a BC of .420. That's a 32% increase in BC in 5.56 over 5.45. Significant. That said, if heavier bullets were available for 5.45 that performance difference may change, but you would need to fire them out of a better platform to see the benefit. If you want something that shoots flat with a high BC the Hornady Superformance 75gr BTHP has a BC of .395, which is about 28% better than 5.45 with 15" less drop at 500 yards, giving 5.56 a 27% advatage over 5.56. 5.56 is both very flat, and with very good performance in the wind. Better at both than 5.45. There are guys doing 1,000 yard competiton using AR rifles and as a base platform, I've never seen anything in an AK platform competive at 500+. 80gr VLD for 5.56 offer even better BC, but require single loading as they don't fit in the magazine, 223 Wylde chambers, and fast twist rates so I excluded them from this, but their performance at 500+ is exceptional.

    So IMO while the AK-74 may not be innacurate, the AK-47 often is at distance due to the 7.62 round itself. The 5.45 is obviously better than the 7.62, but the BC, short AK barrel, short sight radius, sight design, lack of current bullet selection, and AK design all work against eclipsing the AR at range. It will be interesting to see the difference shrink as 5.45 offerings increase.

    The Gun Digest Book of the AR-15

    The Best 5.56 Load: The Black Hills MK 262 Mod 1 - Shooting Times

    Black Hills 77 grain Tipped MatchKing Precision 5.56mm Ammo - The Firearm Blog

    5.45x39 Rifle Ammo: The Other Russian Cartridge
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017 at 11:02 AM
  7. May 20, 2017 at 10:50 AM #57
    ArmyGuy45

    ArmyGuy45 XDTalk 15K Member Founding Member

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    AK with a really good barrel is just as accurate as an AR. I think the big difference is the round, not the weapon. The AR tends to shoot more flat over longer distances.
     
  8. May 20, 2017 at 11:21 AM #58
    JayhawkNavy02

    JayhawkNavy02 XDTalk 1K Member

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    [​IMG]

    Not sure I agree.

    If you replace a few parts on an AR the accuracy, which is already very good for a service rifle goes up significantly as well. 1/2 MOA is easily attained and even 1/4 MOA with mostly MIL-SPEC parts by a skilled Gunsmith. Not sure you can squeeze that out of an AK. I could be wrong. If they were equivalent you'd see 1 kyd rifles built. My good friend owns a custom rifle shop and the 1/2 MOA ARs are emabrasingly easy to build.

    The AMU and PWS AR service rifles are required to fire 1/4 MOA or better or theyare not issued for competition. Many budget service rifle builders like Rock River Arms guarantee 3/4 MOA or better and the upper end guys 1/2 MOA and the top guys like Dave Sams 1/4 MOA. The fixture above is used to test on the range by the reloading shop at FT Benning.

    Match rifles are the "outlaw" class of High Power. I've never seen an AK used as a base for 1,000 YD competition. I suppose it's possible, but they probably won't be competitive or you would see them on the line or being sold. I concede that's anecdotal.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Other than AK mechanics, what is not easy to overcome, is the difference in the performance of the rounds themselves. See post above.

    Les Baer Custom Inc.

    White Oak Armament « Accuracy Nut – The quest for the highest firearm accuracy possible

    http://www.utahrifle.com/site/mobile?url=http://www.utahrifle.com/Gunsmithing.html#2755

    Home Page

    Cactus Weapons Systems, Inc.

    AR-15 Service Rifle (1999)
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017 at 12:34 PM
  9. May 20, 2017 at 3:19 PM #59
    ArmyGuy45

    ArmyGuy45 XDTalk 15K Member Founding Member

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    I am talking about same value AR and AK. If you put a 3k AR against an AK the AR will win every time.
     
  10. May 20, 2017 at 3:52 PM #60
    kyletx1911a1

    kyletx1911a1 XDTalk 2K Member

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    I'm not a big ak fan . But one has to truly respect its gangster. It's a beast no doubt
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017 at 3:57 PM

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