Need a recipe

Discussion in 'The Ammo Can' started by thejoe, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. thejoe

    thejoe XDTalk 1K Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Moscow, ID.
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    For some .45 ACP reloads. I just started reloading and am very excited to say that I am ready to put powder and bullets into my first batch of cases. However, I bought Hodgdon Titegroup powder and haven't been able to find a recipe for my 230 gr JHP bullets with it.

    From other Hodgdon pistol powders I am thinking that I will do 1/2 batch at 4.6 gr of powder and 1/2 at 5.0 gr of powder and see how it goes.

    Anyone have a good recipe with these elements?

    Thanks for the help!

    joe
     
  2. rtparso

    rtparso XDTalk 1K Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,958
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    New Mexico
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0
  3. thejoe

    thejoe XDTalk 1K Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Moscow, ID.
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Is there going to be any difference between my JHPs and the FMJs? I would think not since the bullet weight is the same, but the OAL will be different. I haven't seen a recipe for JHPs at all, not even on the Hodgdon website.

    Thanks!
     
  4. thejoe

    thejoe XDTalk 1K Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Moscow, ID.
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Thanks to whomever for moving this! I knew there was a better place than the CatterBox.

    So, what OAL do I need to load to with my 230 gr JHPs? I'm thinking 1.222 as that is what most of my TAP rds are loaded to from the factory.

    Input?

    joe
     
  5. Staticxd00d

    Staticxd00d XDTalk 100 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NC
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Your JHP should be very close to the data for the FMJ FP on the Hodgdon site. Lists a starting load of 4.4gr Titegroup, and a max load of 4.8gr. OAL is 1.2", which is right at your guess of 1.222 from your TAP rounds.

    I would start at 4.4gr and work up. Load a few rounds at 4.4, then 4.6, then 4.8.
     
  6. Keltyke

    Keltyke XDTalk 3K Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Messages:
    3,584
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Spartanburg, SC
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Sounds like you need to get a couple of good manuals and follow the bullet/powder recommendations in them.
     
  7. Mercmar

    Mercmar XDTalk 5K Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,283
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0
    I'd just like to add that you really need to be careful about double charges, when using powders that fast. I use almost twice that much powder with my 230gr. reloads, but I'm using AA#5. You can double-charge with #5, but it almost fills the case with a double charge.
     
  8. fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    10,290
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    kommiefornia
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0
    ^^THIS^^Seriously, another noob reloader dupped into buying TG. IMO, STOP! Put the TG on the shelf, go buy some W231 or Unique & start there. Working loads of TG in the bottom of a 45acp case are barely visible, a dbl charge is diff to spot for a noob & ver possible. Add to that the add'l. bbl heat, steep pressure curve, just not a good beginners powder.
    That fact you are asking for data instead of doing a proper load work up is telling me you need to do some more reading. Get 2 good manual, not the Lee. Cross ref w/ the Hodgdon site & then use average starting data & work up IN SMALL batches in 0.1gr increments. Your thought of 0.4gr increment is frightening w/ a powder like TG, Clays, Bee, etc. Pressures are NOT linear. As a faster powder gets to the peak, it can go vertical or spike. That is KB territory my friend. More guns have been blown up by relaoders using uberfast pwoders & making a small mistake. There is no such thing as beign "a little over" when it comse to powders faster than Unique.
    BTW, you cannot measure a facotry round & then just plug that OAL in UNLESS it is the same bullet. Bullets are NOT plug & play & neither is OAL. A RNFMJ is not a FPFMJ is not a JHP is not a plated is not a lead bulet. OAL really matters the faster the powder burn rate. SO load the longest OAL that works in YOUR gun. What works in my 1911 doesn't in my XD so you must adjust both OAL & powder charge, if loading shorter, w/ the data you do find in the manuals. USe your removed bbl as a guide, make a dummy round @ the book OAL & see if it fits. If it drops in flush w/ the bbl hood, good to go, if not seat deeper & reduce your charge a bit to compensate if you are running the top end of the data. How much depends ont he powder used, there is no rule of thumb, but know that pressures start up dramatically when seating 0.060" deeper than the OAL indicated.
     
  9. JCT

    JCT XDTalk 100 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2011
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Holy cow, Fred, that's one of the best discussions about OAL I've seen. I hope you collect comments like these as they are *really* helpful.

    I have found the concept of OAL very opaque, even with reading through several manuals.

    Something that I picked up along the way that I think is useful for newbies (like myself) is to look for a powder with a high load *density* with lower pressures for a given velocity.

    Plenty of time to go jacking things up....
     
  10. mongoose33

    mongoose33 XDTalk 2K Member Founding Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,720
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0
    I can tell how much I have learned about reloading when I can predict, accurately, what Fred and Mercmar are going to say. :)

    I remember when I started that a primary concern was buying a good cheap powder so I would have the lowest per-round cost.

    What a mistake. Not only is the cost difference trivial, you can really set yourself up for a problem with a fast powder if you don't do it right.

    Fred said something a few years back that really stuck with me: use a powder that fills most of the case, and you can easily identify a double-charge--and it's easier to see a no-charge.

    And I do. WST in the .45, WST or AA#7 in the 9mm.
     
  11. JCT

    JCT XDTalk 100 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2011
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    I frequent several pistol forums and always read about reloading -- have easily gotten the best advice from those two guys right here.

    Actually, I was going to try WST after my first try with W231. Any good sources for starting loads (9mm and .45)?
     
  12. Bruce75

    Bruce75 XDTalk Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Look at <brianenos.com> & <handloads.com>
    Lots of good info.
     
  13. Samsimaxflyfish

    Samsimaxflyfish XDTalk Newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2012
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    FYI make sure you seat the Primers! Check everyone you put in, I had a BAD experience, and had to send my XDm 40 5.25 back to Springfield!
     
  14. Keltyke

    Keltyke XDTalk 3K Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Messages:
    3,584
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Spartanburg, SC
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    That's why I prime off press, with a Lee hand primer.
     
  15. Samsimaxflyfish

    Samsimaxflyfish XDTalk Newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2012
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    I agree you get a much better feel.
     
  16. LCFD#22

    LCFD#22 XDTalk 100 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    446
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    South East MN
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    I did a double charge tonight with LongShot in .45 auto. Immediately saw the mistake. I was hand measuring powder for a couple hi charge loads. That's why I like it and like some have said Unique. I am also getting a pound of WST tomorrow. Normally I use my case activated drop. I know a lot of people here hate them. With the hornady it meters Unique and LS VERY well. I have never been more than .1grs off. Now Varget can be off by damn near 1gr.
     
  17. mongoose33

    mongoose33 XDTalk 2K Member Founding Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,720
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0
    You can take this for what it's worth, as always, start low, work your way up, watch carefully for signs of pressure. Here are some recipes I've used for WST in both .45 and 9mm (both 4" XD service models):

    .45 Caliber:

    Precision Black Bullet, 200gr, 1.225 OAL:
    5.2 gr. WST produced about 850fps; started at 4.3, which produced about 700fps.

    Missouri Bullet 200gr LRN, 1.225 OAL:
    5.2 gr WST produced about 788fps; started at 4.6 which produced about 711fps.

    Precision Delta 230gr FMJ, 1.250 OAL:
    4.9 gr WST produced about 766fps; started at 4.4 which produced about 690fps.

    9mm:

    Precision Delta 115gr FMJ, 1.120 OAL:
    5.0 gr WST produced about 1132fps; started at 4.0.

    Precision Black Bullet 125gr FP, 1.118 OAL:
    5.0 gr WST produced about 1110fps; started at 4.0, produced 1008fps.

    Hornady XTP 147gr, 1.100 OAL:
    4.0 gr WST produced 935fps; started at 3.8 produced 895 fps.

    Hornady XTP 124gr, 1.100 OAL
    4.5 gr WST produced 1058fps; started at 4.0 produced 984fps.

    Missouri Bullet Smallball LRN, 1.09OAL:
    4.4 gr WST produced 1076fps; started at 3.8, produced 1002fps.

    Precision Delta 124gr FMJ 1.100 OAL:
    4.8gr WST produced 1043fps; started at 4.3gr, produced 1008fps.


    When Fred suggested WST, I went through the same problem--finding load data. So I started low and ran them through a chronograph, which is at best a rough substitute for pressure. I wanted to see predictable rises in velocity as I increased the powder amounts.

    I shoot a lot of the Missouri Bullet LRN Softball bullets using WST in my XD-9, but I don't think it's always the best powder for 9mm. I have trouble with this load in my Ruger LC9, I get brass shavings from the primers inside the action; I don't get that in my XD. Previous discussion here on XDT suggested it's too fast a powder for that load in that gun.

    Be careful, work up your loads. It's a great powder for .45, and serviceable for 9mm though there may be better powders.
     
  18. fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    10,290
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    kommiefornia
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0
    You won't find a volumetric measure that meters stick powders liek Varget very well. So in running various loads thru a progressive, look for ball/spherical powders first, then flake, then if you do tick powders, consider metering short & then trickling to get it perfect. A variation of 1gr can be a lot in small cases like 223 & even 308, not so much in a magnum case.
     
  19. fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    10,290
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    kommiefornia
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0
    IMO, the two issues noobs have trouble with are OAL & powder selection. So yo ugo to a gunstore, where the guy onyl cares about moving his stock, & ask him; "what's a giid powder for my 40 reloading"? If he doesn't ask you like 8 questions, then he knows little to nothing about reloading or how to choose a powder. There is waaaaaaay more to it than cost, that is a distant 3rd IMO. Performance window, safety & then cost. Study a copule reloading manuals, look @ a burn rate chart & the Lee powder volume chart, that gets you going in the right direction.
    OAL, again ALWAYS bullet & gun specific. I don't care what the manual says or me or anyone else, it must fit your gun. Then you have to learn make the powder charge work w/ that OAL. Deeper in a pistol case increases pressures, further out in a rifle case increases pressures, they are inverse do to the diff in case volume & powder burn rates.
     
  20. JCT

    JCT XDTalk 100 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2011
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Hey mongoose -- thanks a million. Especially appreciate that nice low range to start with, I'm naturally pretty cautious, but these "kaboom" threads of late are really a good reality check. Just like when I prescribe meds -- start low and work up!

    In all honesty, Fred, I have yet to find anyone behind a counter I would trust to give loading advice. :( Talk about a mixed bag. That's an interesting point about "working back" from the OAL -- makes sense. Luckily for me I'm a scientist in real life, don't mind working my way through a problem empirically.
     

Share This Page