Lessons learned from a good-samaritan attempt

Discussion in 'CCW and Open Carry Talk' started by ATCclears, Mar 27, 2017.

  1. Mar 28, 2017 #11
    horseman 47231

    horseman 47231 XDTalk 500 Member

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    Couldn't agree more, these types of situations merit some reflection, always.

    There are consequences for every action and there are consequences for every inaction.
     
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  2. Apr 7, 2017 #12
    Krull

    Krull XDTalk 500 Member

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    I wont fight someone elses fight and I don't expect them to come and fight mine.
     
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  3. Apr 12, 2017 #13
    urgunshot21

    urgunshot21 XDTalk Newbie

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    If I saw something like that I would intervene. Out of the goodness of my heart to see someone get bullied and abused in such a way I just couldnt let that sort of action be regardless man or women. I would call the cops first giving plates and description of persons/vehicle and then approach the vehicle if it were to continue. If he drives away there will be police right after him. I would use words to diffuse the situation. If he approaches in a manner to intimidate me, warn him Im armed and I want no problems but he needs to stop abusing her. I wouldnt ever pull my firearm immediately out, if he attacks you and you shoot, you could be in serious trouble. You put yourself into that situation.
     
  4. Apr 14, 2017 #14
    fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

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    The problem with this mindset is you don't really know what you see. Ground & pound on a woman. Sounds ugly but what if she were the attacker initially? What if she had stabbed the man & he was defending himself & got a bit out of control? Lots of ways this could have been diff. IMO, since you rarely know what you are actually seeing, best to call 911 & be a good witness. I can only think of handful of act right now scenarios that do NOT directly affect me, where I would react by pulling my CCW. The aforementioned incident is not one.
    Putting yourself into that situation starts a ball rolling you haven't really thought thru. What if the guy did attack you, now you have to shoot to protect the gun. You think your life was complicated by the detention, it would be a crap storm with taking a life, even if justified. I call it the Zimmerman rule. He was justified in his shooting but it never had to come to a shooting if he didn't interject himself into bringing a gun to a fist fight. It sounds cold but reality check needs to come into play when you carry a gun in public. It is to get me out of trouble not deeper into it.
     
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  5. Apr 14, 2017 #15
    urgunshot21

    urgunshot21 XDTalk Newbie

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    Obviously what is described in the article is different from what I couldve seen. I only speak as if I clearly saw what happened and would react accordingly. Those are hypothetical questions we cant answer because we dont know the full story from each party. Regardless of who initiated or who is beating up who, I would intervene. Im very self aware of what goes on around me and the consequences that arise from putting myself into someone else problem. To be clear, I would never pull my gun, I would run if attacked. It has happened before to me, Id rather run and look like a b###h than stab or shoot someone. If they catch me, well thats another story.

    I agree 100% with your 2nd paragraph. In most situations its best to stay clear without any interaction and call the police as well as record what you can from a distance. Its key to keep a calm and collected mind as things can escalate quickly. If things ever do get crazy, I always advise others to get hand to hand combat/defensive training, carry pepper spray and a knife as a secondary means of protection.
     
  6. Apr 18, 2017 #16
    fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

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    Also pulling your gun on an unarmed person can easily be seen as an offensive act, not a defensive act. Just keep repeating Zimmerman when you think you need to take your gun to a fist fight. Once the gun comes out, all other options have been removed. You now must protect the gun at all costs. Just a stupid move IMO. You want to play cop, go join the force.
    Ask yourself, would I intervene w/o the gun? IF the answer is no, then don't. JMO of course but too many ccw think their gun makes them an extension of LE & it does not.
     
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  7. Apr 25, 2017 at 10:21 PM #17
    Raddog

    Raddog XDTalk Newbie

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    I would never, ever, ever armchair QB someone in a situation but I just want to say, this illustrates why a non lethal option like pepper spray, could have helped.
    I'm always saying, if you carry a gun ( or not) find a little extra room for some mace.
     
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  8. Apr 25, 2017 at 11:09 PM #18
    Helpdesk9

    Helpdesk9 XDTalk 25K Member

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    Unless that person literally has no arms, they are not unarmed.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
     
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  9. Apr 26, 2017 at 1:47 AM #19
    fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

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    Well yes, especially if you bring the gun to a fist fight. You shoot a guy that wants to go to fists, you better be losing that fight badly, then justify why you got involved in the first place. Either that or he needs to be nfl linebacker status & you a 110# female. Raw fear is never justification to use deadly force. Your ccw is not a badge & you have no LE powers. People that carry need to wrap their heads around this little tid bit.
     
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  10. Apr 26, 2017 at 6:26 AM #20
    JWA

    JWA XDTalk 500 Member

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    I don't know I'd agree with this 100% FredJ. While I don't know the exact wording of the law governing use of lethal force in defense of an assault taking a beating first isn't the only justifiable scenario.

    Disparity of force would certainly be a huge determining factor to justifiable (or not) deadly force being brought to bear. Naturally after such an incident you'd have to show why you thought it was necessary to stop a threat and no a CCW doesn't grant us LE power nor immunity from prosecution, whether a shooting is justifiable depends 100% on so many factors like if you thought your or another's life was truly in jeopardy.

    Good reminder thought we're NOT LE nor acting as such just by having a CCW.
     
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