Help zeroing in scope.

Discussion in 'Optics and Glass' started by CountryBoy, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. CountryBoy

    CountryBoy XDTalk 100 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Central FL
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    I have a Nikon P-223 scope on my MSR. I can zero it in dang good at 25 yards, but if I keep the same settings and go to 100 yards, I don't even hit the target. Nikon says the parallax is 100 yards. I've been reading about parallax and I'm still more confused about it than a homeless guy on house arrest. If I set it for 100 yards, I cant hit anything at 25. I don't think you're supposed to adjust for that little variance in yardarge, are you? Also, when looking through the scope, I can either see the target clearly and lose sight of the crosshairs or if I can see the crosshairs and ther BDC, the target is fuzzy, but I think that is my eyes.

    Heres 60 rounds at 25 yards..

    [​IMG]
     
  2. silvabaQ

    silvabaQ XDTalk 3K Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Messages:
    3,941
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    IN, MI and AZ
    Ratings:
    +11 / 1
    Subscribed
     
  3. Bonehead

    Bonehead XDTalk 15K Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    18,155
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0
    lock the rifle down in a shooting bench rest vise.

    fire a shot in a clean brand new unused sheet of target paper.

    use the turrets on the scope to make the cross hairs or dot point at the hole.

    -or-

    use a laser sighter to find the point of impact and move the turrets to find the dot.

    I think either way should get you close.


    as far as parallax goes, I think you just need to line up on the scope as it was intended. proper eye relief and look straight through the center of it.

    maybe some members can fill in more details about it than I can.
     
  4. Dirty Rod

    Dirty Rod XDTalk 3K Member Founding Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    3,260
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0
    I'd start with some basics and make sure that everything is tight, you are shooting from a rest, and have solid mechanics behind the rifle. You are correct in that 25 yards to 100 it should just be several inches of vertical adjustment but looking at your 25 yard target you have 3-4 inches of both vertical and horizontal spread which points to your form behind the rifle unless the scope and rings are not tight. If you are not benched and shooting from bags or a bipod then I'd do that otherwise it's going to be hard to find the rifle's true zero.

    Can't offer anything with respect to that particular scope but you have to get to a point where both the recticle and the target are clear. Often there are separate adjustments for the recticle and focus/parallax. As Bonehead stated you have to be straight behind the scope with a clear view and no black around any of the edges.
     
  5. CountryBoy

    CountryBoy XDTalk 100 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Central FL
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    During this session, I was not on a rest and no bipod. I was resting on the mag. I know how to adjust the scope and see through it, but if its zeroed at 25, it doesnt even hit the target at 100. Thats why I'm confused.. and parallax. When I was using the 100 yard range (last weekend), to even get close to my mark, I was making major adjustments. I wouldnt think it would be that different in just 75 yards considering the BDC marks out to 600 are very small increments.

    The holes just off to the bottom right were before adjustment, but all the center marks are after adjustment. It wont be the same everytime as the rifle is not in a vice but just resting on the mag this time.
     
  6. WidowMaker88

    WidowMaker88 XDTalk 100 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Grab hold of your scope, and give it a shake. IF it moves, make sure your mount is tightened down proper. That breakable (forget color, purple?) locktite works well here.

    Next, make sure your rings are all torqued the same, you don't want to tighten one side down and then the other. If this is the case, back them out, and go a few turns a time each screw.

    There should not be too much difference at 100 from 25. How high is your scope mounted above your barrel? When ever I shoot, I usually never had the power cranked all the way up, somewhere between 6-9. When I shoot at 25, the lowest my parallax goes is 50yds, so I use that, and fine tune adjust my eyepiece so I have minor fuzziness. When shooting out to 100, I adjust the parallax to 100 and sometimes have to move the eyepiece for fine tuning a hair. (my nikons)

    Everybody has pretty much got everything down I would, unless there was a problem in QC somewhere in the factory. But make sure your gear is solid, even and straight first.

    Like previously mentioned, mechanics behind the rifle are big. (check out CMP, helped me out ;)) I try and not rest on the mag, some people say it doesn't matter, others swear it does. Many people use a vice, I use bags or prone and a sling. But you want to be solid.

    The laser bore sight is good to get you on paper, so is the blank target trick. Which is best when done with a partner too. Taking that one shot at 25 and adjusting (or having your partner turn the turrets) your cross-hairs to the hole.

    Sometimes, bullet weight and type of bullet won't agree with some rifles depending on lots of things, like the twist of the barrel. Hope you aren't shooting steel case. I don't like it because of how much I shoot, but others are fine shooting a box a week of it.
     
  7. dglock

    dglock XDTalk 3K Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    3,906
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Buckeye AZ
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0

    Do not rest the mag on the shooting bench! From the looks of the 25 yard target you are not getting a good group. At 25 yards you should have almost a one hole group.

    Get some sand bags and get a good tight group at 25 yards before you even think about shooting at 100.

    If you are shooting .223 then your 25 yard group should be an inch to 1 1/2 low to get on the paper at 100yards.

    Don't worry about the numbers on the parallax adjustment, set it while looking through the scope, adjust it till the target is clear.

    don
     
  8. Knightslugger

    Knightslugger XDTalk 5K Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Messages:
    8,255
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Ratings:
    +55 / 8
  9. taylor6400

    taylor6400 XDTalk 1K Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,961
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    OH
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0
    Yeah, its either you, the scope itself, or loose mounting.

    Check all base and ring screws first.

    You dont need a vice, but get a good bench and sandbags at the min. Shot bags with sand work well up front. Then depending on the angle maybe a shot bag in rear or not. A sock filled with dry beans works well for the rear also...you can hold it in your off hand and squeeze it to adjust stock height. Shoot with no wind.

    Zero at 25, i shoot 5 shot groups and then adjust. Note your clicks and make sure your groups are following your clicks properly.

    Then go to 50. Should be very minor adjustment. If there is a big difference from 25 to 50 there is a big problem somewhere. If only small verticle needed at 50 i just leave it and go to 100.

    If you want a 100 yard zero i again shoot a 5 shot group, and adjust as needed to center on bull at 100. I note my clicks from 25 (or 50) to the 100 yard zero. Should only be vertical with no wind. Then i will go back to 25 and shoot with the 100 yard zero and see where it is. Then i usually revert back to 25 zero shoot another group and make sure it is back to original 25 zero, then back to 100 yard zero and make sure it goes back. Takes a good optic...but your Nikon should hold zero doing this.

    ETA...i dont understand parallax either. But a scope is either factory set for a certain yardage or you have an adjustment. On my leupold i have adjustments at 25, 50, 100, 150, 200, and infinite. You do have to adjust it for that small of distances or its not clear. I set it roughly by the markings on the ring and fine tune looking through eye piece. This should not be effecting your 25-100 POI problems.
     
  10. hunttheevil

    hunttheevil XDTalk 100 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0
    You're getting some good info here. As others have said benchrest or use sand bags to steady the rifle and tighten up the 25 yd groups. If the reticle and target are not in focus, have you adjusted the eye piece to clear it up? If you're eyes are like mine, you will need to. Like dglock said, zero the rifle at 1.5 inches low at 25 yards and you will be closer to zero at 100 yards. The scope, depending on mounts is sitting about 1.5 inches above the rifle bore.

    When you zero the rifle, the bullet initially comes up the 1.5 inches to meet the cross hairs of the scope at the range you zero it. Then it begins to drop toward the ground in an arching motion. Graph attached for illustration.


    $ShortTrajectoryGraph.jpg
     
  11. scopedoc

    scopedoc XDTalk Newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    parallax is the appearance that the cross hairs move on the target when you move you head back & forth slightly.
    if your scope has an adjustment for parallax ,put the cross hairs on the target
    and adj. it while moving your head slightly until the cross hairs stay on the target. this will have to be done whenever shooting at a different distance.
    if there is no adj. the scope will be parallax free only at distance specified by
    scope manufacturer. usually 100yds. for a. 223 scope.
    start at 100yds. A lot of rifle scopes are not made to be free of parallax at such close range.
     
  12. Knightslugger

    Knightslugger XDTalk 5K Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Messages:
    8,255
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Ratings:
    +55 / 8
    at a ~25 yard zero you're ~5.5" above zero at 100 yards and wont come back to zero for a long long time...
     
  13. CountryBoy

    CountryBoy XDTalk 100 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Central FL
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Now that's why I can't hit the paper at 100 yards! I didn't think it would require any adjustment between 25 and 100 yards.

    Thanks yall for all the good info! I know this trip wasn't going to anywhere near perfect as I was basically holding the rifle and didn't have it stationary... and my nerves are shot from doing dumb stuff in my younger years so I can't hold a steady hand.

    The P-223 does not have a parallax adjustment. Its just specified as 100 yards (P-223 3-9x40 BDC 600 from Nikon ) So, does this mean that it is parallax free up to 100 yards? I'm still confused about it, but I'm a visual person. I'll get it eventually.. lol

    Everything is good and tight and the rifle is solid. I'm using the Nikon P-series mounts. Heres a pic just for reference. its sits pretty low. Whats funny is I thought the FSB would be in the way, but you can't even see it.

    [​IMG]

    I've seen the shot gun bags at Wally World, but they just seem a bit too small to use. I like the bean in a sock idea. For the fuzzy cross hairs, I've adjusted the eye piece a ton and I think its just my bad eyes that can't see both.

    Thanks again yall.
     
  14. RetiredFCC

    RetiredFCC XDTalk 25K Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    25,363
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    The West Coast of South Central Florida
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0
    Bullet Drop Compensator scopes require a zero at the specified distance for the "BDC" to operate properly. In your case, the P-223 scope is set up with a BDC that is calibrated for the 55gr .223 round. The exact info is in your owners manual.

    223 BDC scopes need a 100yd zero to work properly. I have the Leupold Mark AR scope on mine with a 100 yd zero. Once the elevation turret adjusted to reflect it, all I have to do is turn it to the number "2" and I'm set for 200yd shots. "3" for 300yds and so on. (I've shot mine out to 565 yards without a problem!)

    The critical thing though is to make sure the scope is mounted properly...correct eye relief, cross hairs are erect, base and rings tight! Without these things, you're chasing your tail. Next you need to shoot from a bag or rest. You aren't going to get a good zero if the gun isn't stable and resting on a magazine is anything but! And don't forget, another source of assistance is the RSO at your range! Most of them know how to get a scope zeroed and will probably be willing to help you! Good Luck!
     

Share This Page