First Shotgun, the Blackwater 590a1?

Discussion in 'Shotgun Talk' started by Sean_Price, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. Sean_Price

    Sean_Price XDTalk Newbie

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    wattup peeps,

    granted I am new to all of this, ok well maybe not the internet but guns and forums for sure.. and I'm not quite yet up to par on whats a long running joke and whats dead-pan humour as real world advice, i.e. mall ninja v/s taticool, zombie slayer and all that..

    anyway LONG story short, I am preparing for the coming zombiepacylapse or those crazy mayan's putting an end to our world..

    i.e. in other words I'm looking for a home defense shottie..

    Initially I was all set and was going for the m590a1, the 51660 version, jus plain and simple(or so I thought)

    BUT now I see that theres essential an upgrade to that model in the form of the Blackwater 590a1 51772

    NOW for some reason, this model of gun does NOTHING but spark hatred and rants about the above mentioned items, mall ninja, and tacticool.. I have spent hours searching for honest reviews on it and I get nothing but the same backlash because of the logo on every page that even mentions it..

    Maybe because I'm not with all that internet and social media stuff.. but I don't get it..

    Yeah I googled the backstory on Blackwater, merc company gone bad, ect, ect..

    BUT regardless, if the original 590a1 is held in such HIGH regard, wouldn't it make that much more sense for me to get the Blackwater version of it?

    its basically the same price, $500, but from what I can tell, YOUR getting way more for you money, $$$$

    http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/51772.jpg

    1. it now has "improved" sites, <-- jus what I read, if som1 can elaborate
    2. rails, rails, rails.. right?
    a. one for a scope or RDS
    b. one one the side for a flashlight?
    c. one on the bottom, I think..?
    3. the stock has I guess what appears to be a spot for an emergency shell?

    I guess what I'm essentially asking why aren't people up in arms about this gun? I mean its the proven 590a1 platform right? but with some modern upgrades..

    Granted the logo is enough of a killer for most(but hey it looks like a sticker or even cheaply painted on, as in wear off soon) but is it that much of a deal breaker?


    Logo drama aside, WHY wouldn't someone want this? What are its negatives.. ?




    I appreciate any and all info regarding this..


    school me brothers!


    keep it peace

    oNe

    p.s. Pretty sure someone will say due to the logo jus get the original and put all the extras on it that come on the blackwater version.. but its like 1. why bother if it already comes that way 2. pretty sure doing it that way will cost way more then the $500 the blackwater vers is going for right?
     
  2. Ragnar

    Ragnar XDTalk 500 Member

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    1. The sights depends on what you're used to. Those look similar to what you'd find on an AR-15. Some prefer those and some prefer a plain old brass bead.

    2. Depends, I've never had rails on a fore grip so I can't say for sure but it looks awkward.
    a. I don't see the point of putting a scope on a shotgun, maybe a red dot but...ehh not really my thing
    b. Seems weird to mount stuff on a moving part.
    c. See b.
    3. That's a speed feed stock. Not a bad option to have but not a deal breaker either way.

    I wouldn't buy it because I don't see the need for those options. I would be better served with the 500A1 or 590A1 20' barrel -9 shot - with a standard or speed feed stock.
     
  3. John A.

    John A. XDTalk 2K Member

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    I'm just going to upgrade a mossberg 500.

    Here is my list of upgrades

    1. Aluminum trigger guard/housing
    2. Mesa Tactical High Tube buttstock adapter with overmold grip and magpul moe stock
    3. Aimtech warhammer heat shield/top rail
    4. magpul mbus sight set
    5. xs tritium round front sight post

    Already has a 3 rail Ergo forend on it.
     
  4. Boris

    Boris XDTalk 1K Member

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    Now all it needs is a sidefolding collapsible recoil reducing stock with built in shell holder and a spot to hold extra batteries and some bandaids for the chopping that bottom rail will do to your hand. That toprail is not long enough for a 30mm tube 50mm objective scope needed to dispatch a zombie proper.

    Other than the stock and longer top rail, sure why not. Buckshot will have half the pattern size and slugs will shoot twice as flat with all that stuff on there. All very much needed for HD ranges............

    kidding aside. I have seen worse. Only thing I see inane is the bottom rail on the forend. Put anything there and pumping will be difficult at best and leave it bare and them bandaids will be needed. Just keep in mind it will not perform any better than a plain jane Maverick88, but if it makes you happy dont listen to what anyone has to say about it.

    A range report is required if you get it. We expect it, and you better have pics or it never happened.......
     
  5. Cuda66

    Cuda66 XDTalk 10K Member

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    Yes, the logo would be a huge deal breaker for me...

    Why pay extra for the dumba$$ monkeypaw mercenary logo.

    Just get a straight 590 and have the same gun for less.
     
  6. rickett

    rickett XDTalk 2K Member Founding Member

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    Yeah, all that stuff isn't really necessary on a shotgun, IMO, especially if it's your first one. Just get the plain ol 500A. $300 and you got a nice HD/Zombie gun (plus it has no merc logo, so the zombies won't laugh at you...:rolleyes::razz:)
     
  7. Mudinyeri

    Mudinyeri XDTalk 2K Member

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    If you regularly use words like "wattup", "peeps" and "shottie" as you did in your OP, I'd recommend the Blackwater edition.
     
  8. Mr Evilwrench

    Mr Evilwrench XDTalk 500 Member

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    Heh, I got the blackwater 500, not because it said blackwater; I really don't care. It had the breacher barrel, and that interests me. I have a 590 as well.
     
  9. jblosser

    jblosser XDTalk 100 Member

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    Winchester Super X Defender 18" is $269.99 @ CDNN

    Quality gun, but not many accessories, not that you necessarily need any.
     
  10. Sean_Price

    Sean_Price XDTalk Newbie

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    oh word? In that case I'll purchase 2 of them, one to use and the other to store for sale 10 years from now at 8 times the price!!

    Come on college boy, next you'll be telling me gangsta rap is corrupting our children and video games lead to violence... Maybe YOUR president should ban both of those activities, WINK!!


    Gentlmen, aside from college boy above, yall gave me some good advise and A LOT to to think about.. Great group of guys here, ragnar special thanks for your in depth answers my good man!!

    I came into this wanting the "ultimate" shotgun and my research lead me to the 590a1..

    Saw the Blackwater edition and with my limited knowledge FIGURED it was a no brainer, i.e. 590a1 platform with all these EXTRAs.. rails and the sites and at the time I thought it was nifty that the stock had a slot for an (read: 1 SINGLE SHELL ONLY) extra emergency shell.. but ragnar schooled me..

    The "regular" 590a1 is going for about $450-475 WHEREAS the Blackwater 590a1 is going for $475-550..

    So i was coming into this thinking, hey for an extra $50 I get the updated model with all the "extras"

    BUT NOW I know better.. thanks to yall!

    seems the Blackwater version REALLY is just a tacticooL ploy huh?

    1. the sight ain't all its cracked up to, user preference i'm sure..
    2. the rails are NOT practical?
    a. some1 posted that the top 1 isn't enuff for a proper scope?
    b. the side one is on moving part, didn't realize that, that can't be good
    c. the bottom one i have no clue on, cept yall sayin its either akward to use or if NOT used can lead to physical harm on the hand..

    interesting.. WHY the heck would they issue such an impractible version? I mean some mall ninjas might buy it right? but the overall consensus is that anyone being "real" about how and where to use this gun would stay far far away..

    amazing!!

    To be honest I could care less about the logo, its kinda retarded if you ask me.. oh wait forgot about college boy, I mean its kinda corny looking to me..

    but yeah I WANT/NEED a 590a1

    BUT there's too many got d@m choices!!! What the jibs man..

    I want the 590a1, 20" 8/9 shot capacity. I want it for the heavy walled barrel..and well earned reputation of being a gun fit for survival

    but is there any 590a1 experts out here that can help decipher all the different models?

    I don't think i want the blackwater model because of what seems to be impractical rail real estate locations, i.e. on moving parts..

    BUT once explained what that stock was, I love and want a speedstock, figure you already carrying the stock why NOT keep an emergency 4 in there..

    I will not have any funds available for a very long time after the shottie purchase, but I was thinking of at least mounting a FLASHLIGHT on there at some point in the future..

    primary purpose of this gun will be a HD/zombie slayer weapon

    There you have it gents

    any help in deciphering and breaking down the myriad options mossberg gives me would be appreciated..

    1. 590 51663 $456 <-- this is the civiliar version of what essentially turns out 2 be a 590a1 since it does have the hvy walled barrel

    2. 590a1 51660 $460 <-- i think this is the one i want, original 590a1 plain and simple right?

    3. 590a1 51668 $500 <-- not sure on this one.. mossbert site shows it with speedfeed stock, but no one sells it as such..

    So there you have it gents, help me understand what the basics are and differences between these 3?

    wikipedia says the 51663 is the civilian version of the 590a1 but that doesn't make sense to me since essentially any civilian can buy any of the 590a1's as they are not restricted.. but yeah, not sure what the big difference is between the 51660 and the 51668 versions..

    I want one of those 3 for HD and would like to have a speedfeed stock and flashlight sometime in the far, far future..


    let me have it gents!

    school me!

    well after proofreading my post I think in posting it I learned my answers, but in case that I am wrong plus wanna hear from more experienced users I will post the post..

    that and I just spent an HOUR writing it all up.. sheesh!


    oNe

    p.s. i googled but didn't get a real answer, how much would the speedfeed stock cost? how much would the flashlight run me? makes and models?
     
  11. 1lowlife

    1lowlife XDTalk 15K Member Founding Member

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    I'll school you..
    Your attitude stinks, WINK!!!

    I usually welcome new guys to the forum, but today, nah..:(


    Pick one and buy it already.
    All your choices are the same gun with a different setup.
    Just buy the stock gun, choose your own accessories, and put them on.

    I don't understand why anyone wants all that crap on a shotgun anyway.
    Unless you are a mall ninja, taticool, zombie slayer wannabe.

    Your OP asks for a good HOME DEFENSE shotgun.
    Here you go...........

    Perfect HD shotgun..

    Remington 870 Police magnum.
    No tacticool crap........

    [​IMG]

    Or if you must have tacticool crap on it, here you go..

    [​IMG]


    Consider yourself schooled..WINK!!!!
     
  12. Mudinyeri

    Mudinyeri XDTalk 2K Member

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    Well, as a matter-of-fact, I did graduate from college. My undergraduate degree is probably older than you. I haven't been called a "boy" since shortly after I entered the Army.

    I've been shooting shotguns for nearly 40 years. You, apparently, have yet to shoot one.

    You came here with a ton of attitude and acting like a gangsta (to use your word). What did you expect?
     
  13. Hammer of Dawn

    Hammer of Dawn XDTalk 500 Member

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    I am also looking to buy a decent home defense shotgun. The Ithaca I have is just huge and that super long barrel would be easy to grab coming around a corner. At least in my head it is....I think I'm gonna just go buy a New England Firearms Pardner Protector for less than 200 bucks....Should be just fine....
     
  14. Mudinyeri

    Mudinyeri XDTalk 2K Member

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    I'm not familiar with that particular weapon but you don't need to spend $500 and get ghost ring sights to have a good HD shotgun. I have a fairly inexpensive Stoeger coach gun that works just fine.

    Not having your barrel grabbed while coming around a corner is as much about training and technique as it is about the length of the weapon. Granted, it's more of a challenge with a longer barrel.
     
  15. Hammer of Dawn

    Hammer of Dawn XDTalk 500 Member

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    Very true about the training/technique statement. The NE Pardner is just a knock off of the 870...from what I've read they are pretty much the same gun...just cheaper...anyone else have any experience/knowledge concerning the Pardner Protector?
     
  16. K.O.D.

    K.O.D. XDTalk 1K Member

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    Its a shotgun. Ammo and chokes are all thats needed. . IMO, unless you're on a swat team, navy seal, army ranger, fbi agent etc, you don't need a lot of crap attached to your shotgun. Its not a sniper rifle or an ar.

    How many of you out there are going to use your shotgun to break down someones door?

    Its seems to me that anything labeled "tactical" is usually marketed to those who want the coolest thing out there and don't know how the **** to use it once they've bought it.
     
  17. Mr Evilwrench

    Mr Evilwrench XDTalk 500 Member

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    Hey, don't disparage my breaching barrel! I may want to knock down a door sometime, or bust something else up. I tend to wind up with weird needs. I don't have rails or any of that crap, just a side folder with pistol grip. I like pistol grips for ergonomic reasons. Relax. I may have paid $25 for the blackwater graphic, but there really wasn't one without it, so, you know.
     
  18. Cuda66

    Cuda66 XDTalk 10K Member

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    Heck, here's my version of it...

    [​IMG]

    A chopped down Wingmaster.
     
  19. yocan

    yocan XDTalk 10K Member Founding Member

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    wouldn't let me quip people, oh well.

    many who come on hear talking like that want something that looks cool, so mud isn't completely wrong.

    Ive graduated college, and I'm afghanistan as a turret gunner..... so not sure what your trying to say there.

    people that view themselves as gangsters should not buy guns they far too often deserve to be shot for what they do with them.

    a rail on top could be useful if you put a rmr by trijicon on there, I don't know anyone that would put a full length scope on a shotgun like that, its beyond retarded. that would be mall ninja worthless. I thought of taking my rmr off my SAW and putting it on my m4 benelli a while back...CO said no can't figure out why.

    the only practical way for a light on a shotgun are the shotgun foreends all the others just get knocked around too much and break. they make em 1 piece and smooth no need for rails

    rails on the front will draw blood, graned rails on the front of a SCAR heavy help you keep the muzzle down but on something you oscilate with full intensity, its going to cut your hand up.

    I think speedfeeds are great for hunting/zombies. i can't see a super need for one for hd but if you are going with that shape you might as well get it very nice stock. the knoxx recoil stock is in no way gimicky many on here made fun of it. now the knoxx adjustable stock is retarded, but the recoil version might just make it so your wife can shoot it/keep the bruising down so you can shoot it more often at the range/have more fun/get that needed 2nd round downrange faster.
     
  20. Brickboy240

    Brickboy240 XDTalk 25K Member

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