Cor-Bon 115 gr. VS Speer Gold Dot 124 gr.

Discussion in 'The Ammo Can' started by WinterWizard, Apr 2, 2011.

  1. WinterWizard

    WinterWizard XDTalk 100 Member

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    Hey, all. I've got a quandary. I've been reading up on defensive rounds and I can't decide. I've got 20 rounds each of the Cor-Bon 115 gr. +P JHP and the Speer Gold Dot 124 gr. +P JHP. Here are the ballistics numbers per Ballistics101.com:

    Cor-Bon: 1350 fps, 466 ft/lbs (no penetration or expansion numbers listed)
    Speer: 1220 fps, 410 ft/lbs. (no penetration or expansion numbers listed)

    I am assuming they both penetrate to about 12". I have read that the Cor-Bon has a tendency to fragment on impact, whereas the Speer have super reliable expansion with no fragmentation. But how the hell does the Cor-Bon get so much impact force from the lighter round? It rivals regular .45 ACP rounds. Is it the extra velocity? You'd think a heavier round would have more force.

    Right now, I am thinking the Speer is probably the all-around better performer because of it's reliable expansion and penetration. While the Cor-Bon is super fast and powerful, but it's kind of a crap shoot as to what is going to happen on impact – might fragment and not penetrate deeply enough.

    What are everyone's thoughts? And please, let's not start a caliber debate or an ammo debate. Let's relegate things to the rounds I've listed here.

     
  2. gsh341

    gsh341 XDTalk 5K Member

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    When you refer to Cor-Bon 115 gr. +P JHP are you talking about DPX?

    Most people forget that the Cor-Bon DPX is not a jacketed hollow point round, but is actually a solid copper hollow point round.

    As for performance, the Cor-Bon DPX does very well in penetration tests and the 9mm DPX easily reaches 12" of penetration even through 4 layers of denim.
     
  3. AZXD

    AZXD XDTalk 35K Member

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    Stop reading ... Both perform well, and a BG isn't gonna care ;)

    Use what works best for you, and your gun ... If they both cycle properly, and you can shoot each with equal proficiency ... Move on !!!
     
  4. Fullclip

    Fullclip XDTalk 500 Member

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    Yes it is the velocity that gives it more force, Force=Mass x Velocity.

    Yes, AZXD is also is right both bullets perform well. Heard a lot of good about both but your gun will prefer one over the other, usually. Whether its the velocity or the grain weight one should perform better than the other. Me, I like to experiment at the range.

    Thanks GSH431 did not know that about the DXP's.
     
  5. smasraum

    smasraum XDTalk 100 Member

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    The low weight, high velocity rounds are almost always going to have more Energy than a higher weight, lower velocity round. It's a function of the math.

    The formula to calculate muzzle energy is Energy = 1/2 bullet mass x bullet velocity squared

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_energy#Calculating_muzzle_energy

    That last bolded part is why the higher velocity light weight rounds have more engery. As the weight goes down, the velocity goes up and gets squared.

    I suspect if you did the calc on one of the really light weight frag rounds, it would be even more surprising.
     
  6. WinterWizard

    WinterWizard XDTalk 100 Member

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    No, gsh341 – I am talking about the regular Cor-Bon +P JHPs, not the DPXs. Surprisingly, the newer DPXs are hard to find in my area, while the regular JHPs seem to be everywhere.

    They are both so close in performance. I am going to go the range early next week to shoot both, see what's what.
     
  7. gsh341

    gsh341 XDTalk 5K Member

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    Just for informational purposes here are a couple videos from Dakota Ammo, the makers of Cor-Bon ammunition, showing various calibers being shot into gel. The Gelatin tests start at about 1:30.

    First, the DPX.
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWOWXdD80P8&feature=related]YouTube - CORBON DPX Product Demonstration Video[/ame]

    Next the JHP.
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1N13eqMDv0&feature=related]YouTube - CORBON Self Defense JHP Product Demonstration Video[/ame]

    Since this is video from the manufacturer, you can expect some advertising content, but the tests mirror what I've sen in live demonstrations of the ammo at the local range.

    For one of the tests I let the sales rep shoot my XD with the 40S&W DPX I had bought months prior loaded into it. It shot exactly as advertised and exactly as you see in the video.
     
  8. AirForceAce357

    AirForceAce357 XDTalk 2K Member

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    +1 to this!! Check to see which one cycles more reliably in your gun and produces better accuracy and pick the one that does better. I think there is waaaay too much overthought given to different bullet weights, types, velocities etc on forums. I know I wouldn't wanna be shot with either of the rounds you mentioned (or any round for that matter). As far as self defense goes, it really comes down to your ability to put whatever round you choose on target quickly and accurately so pick what cycles reliably and shoots accurately and call it good.
     
  9. WinterWizard

    WinterWizard XDTalk 100 Member

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    Thanks, gsh341. I had seen the one for DPX, but not the JHP one.

    The Cor-Bon and Speer are such similar rounds, performance-wise, I'm sure it's a moot point.
     
  10. agalindo

    agalindo XDTalk 15K Member Founding Member

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    Corbon 115gr JHP under under penetrate and are not a good choice. If your dead set on Cobon only the DPX is a good choice. 124gr is the lightest I would go with in a 9mm.
    Don't get caught up in the velocity/foot pounds game those numbers don't mean anything. 124g Gold Dot's meet FBI/IWBA protocols so they are the better choice.

    Actually if you are trying to stop a bad guy as fast as possible, then the bad guy will know the difference between the 115gr corbon JHP and the 124gr gold dot. The Gold Dot will penetrate deeper and cause more damage thus stopping him faster.
     
  11. f150baja

    f150baja XDTalk 100 Member

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    +1 for the speer gold dots, thats the only thing i use in all my guns. the round has proven itself over and over. this is also the round a lot of police departments use as well.
     
  12. WinterWizard

    WinterWizard XDTalk 100 Member

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    I am not dead set on anything, Agalindo, hence the inquiry. I am leaning toward the Speer Gold Dots, however.

    The ballistics numbers on the Cor-Bons seem to be unreliable. I've read charts that say they penetrate to 8" and charts that say they penetrate to 14". I've also read reports that say they don't have feed problems, and reports that say they do have feed problems. There just seem to be too many conflicting reports, which is not good. A good motto to live by is: "If there is any doubt, there is no doubt."
     
  13. smasraum

    smasraum XDTalk 100 Member

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    I'm sure that a 115gr +P would suck to be shot with, but I would probably make a different choice for a SD round, at least in a 9mm or 380. In 380, it's not that unusual for folks to use a flat nosed FMJ round as a SD round. I don't think it's a bad idea in a 9mm either. I'm sure that JHP are also good rounds.

    This is a quote from the FBI's Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness article.

    I've added the bolded emphasis

    You can read a nice PDF version here

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

    Based off of the info below, I'd use a minimum 124gr (heavier is better) and may even opt for a flat nosed FMJ round in 147gr.
     
  14. bunk22

    bunk22 XDTalk 1K Member

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    Here is a good website with a lot of ballastics. This page is the Speer 124+ P Gold Dots, fired through a windshield, denim and into gel. Fired from a 4" barrel, Glock 19. Did pretty damn well.

    Speer 124gr +P Gold Dot versus automobile windshield and gelatin

    This one through denim and into a gel block. Note that this was not a standard gel block so there was greater penetration. A Glock 26 with a 3.5" barrel was standard on this test.

    124gr +P Speer Gold Dot (IWBA 4-layer denim)

    This test I found interesting as the Glock 26 with the 3.5" barrel was used again. I normally carry my XD9sc or PX4sc with their 3" barrels so I assume the velocity and impact will be just slightly less. I will start to rotate with my XDM 3.8 and XDsc as well.

    124gr +P Speer Gold Dot

    Then the 147gr test which I like as I have at least 100 rounds of it and use them for home defense in my full sized Sig P226. The barrel length on this test gun was 4.02" while my 226 is 4.4" I believe.

    147gr Remington Golden Saber JHP
     
  15. john_bud

    john_bud XDTalk 5K Member

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    Nothing works if you miss, so always buy accuracy over theoretical performance on paper.

     

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