But didn't the Pope just get done excommunicating any gun totin' gun makin' gun sellin' Christians?
Wonder what his take on the recent Christian slaughter in Oregon would be?
I am not a Catholic and could not care less for his opinion. Read Esther 9 in the Bible. The Jews were told to arm themselves and fight against those who tried to kill them.
Yes. Heavily. Pope is the pope, not much but another man with another opinion. Good guy probably, but affects me ZERO in my decisions. I don't need another person to pray through. He means well, I think.....
Agreed Jed, it's not just about Christians arming themselves but all law abiding citizens. While it may be that Christians are getting the brunt of the attacks right now, who is next? Cheerleaders? Cub Scouts? Gingers? ( I mean redheads).
I see the point in the article and the message, but defense is defense I don't care what lollipop you pray to. As long as it's defense.
The church my wife belongs to has an armed preacher. He carries. She said when they start services the door gets locked. If someone needs to leave, someone else gets up, too, and locks the door behind them. If/when they come back sometimes 2 or 3 of the men will get up and go to the door to unlock/open it. She is not sure, but believes they are armed as well because of how they act.
Last summer they had a concealed carry course at the church one Saturday and then live fired handguns behind the church (small country church).
If you read about the New England churches before/during the American Revolution you'll find that often, the church was also the community armory. Powder, ball and extra muskets were stored at the church. The ministers preached that folks had a duty to be able to defend themselves, their families and their communities. On April 17, 1775, the first militia member that arrived at the Concord Bridge ready to fight was a local minister. Reverend William Emerson, Sr.
They didn't use to just preach on Sunday morning. Some of the preaching they did was pretty fiery though as they told their congregations that the king and his government were not to be obeyed if their commands were not in line with God's word. Resistance was necessary for Christians if/when the government tried to over rule what was written in the bible and harm the people.
I don't think that God ever intended for his Children to be victims. Far too many times in the Bible, his children were on the serving end for me to believe they should be on the receiving end.
I also believe in a right to self defense and self preservation.
Even many close friends that I know whom are also Preachers, also feel the same way.
Matthew 26:52 - Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Luke 22:36 - Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
The reasons Christians face this question is because there are so many of us that historically have been pacifists, Quakers being the most prominent example. I have fielded several questions from brothers and my primary passage for this has always been Jesus' words from the last supper recorded in Luke 22:35-36 - "35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."
This is not a call to war, but it is a commandment to be practical and prepare for certain eventualities. The sword is compared in rather mundane terms to the money purse and knapsack. Just as money and luggage were necessary for the travelling preachers these men became, so was self-defense at times. It wasn't controversial, just a reality.
That being said, note that while these men were prepared to defend themselves they were also willing to forgo that defense if it furthered the gospel. They put God above their own protection and safety. But those were exceptional circumstances that God granted them wisdom to navigate. Generally, the sword was there to protect themselves and others.
The reasons Christians face this question is because there are so many of us that historically have been pacifists, Quakers being the most prominent example. I have fielded several questions from brothers and my primary passage for this has always been Jesus' words from the last supper recorded in Luke 22:35-36 - "35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."
This is not a call to war, but it is a commandment to be practical and prepare for certain eventualities. The sword is compared in rather mundane terms to the money purse and knapsack. Just as money and luggage were necessary for the travelling preachers these men became, so was self-defense at times. It wasn't controversial, just a reality.
That being said, note that while these men were prepared to defend themselves they were also willing to forgo that defense if it furthered the gospel. They put God above their own protection and safety. But those were exceptional circumstances that God granted them wisdom to navigate. Generally, the sword was there to protect themselves and others.
Someone mentioned locking the church during service. I actually think that's a great idea. We do not! Kind of wish we would. I normally carry an xds 9mm. It's tough concealing with "church" clothes on. So, often I carry a Ruger LCP on my ankle. It's pretty efficient to get to when I'm seated. Otherwise, I'm not sure. But, beyond a relatively short distance I have no confidence in its (my) accuaracy. Even in the small town here I do not beliece we're exempt from idiocy and/or zealotry.
I always wonder if I'm the only one who is ready (semi) to defend my friends and fellow paritioners. I've not had that conversation with the pastor or anyone else. Although, I'm a trustee in charge of the building. My tool kit is an NRA bag so I don't think my feelings are a secret.
I have heard this argument many times. In fact, I had a pretty intense, heated discussion with my FIL over this issue. He owns a handgun and keeps it loaded with self defense rounds. I pointed out this glaring discrepancy in his argument. His response was that he would shoot in the general direction and if absolutely necessary shoot for the legs of the intruder. He does not CC and just recently got a handgun. I then had to try and explain to him that every bullet that is fired in a shelf defense situation has a lawyer's name attached to it until it stops moving. We still do not agree on this issue, but choose not to discuss it on the interest of family peace.
As for the 6th Commandment, the Jewish nation was commanded by God on multiple occasions to utterly destroy an opposing army. If the 6th Commandment meant that any killing is forbidden, this would mean that God is giving two opposing commands. This would be contrary to the very essence of God.
It's a lot easier to convince a jury of anything when there is only 1 side of the story.
That's all I'm sayin'.
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