Am I allowed to borrow a friends gun???

Discussion in 'XDTalk Chatter Box' started by Chrscott22, Apr 19, 2006.

  1. Chrscott22

    Chrscott22 XDTalk Newbie

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    Are there any laws/rules against lending/borrowing guns. My situation is that my friend has a S&W that i'm interested in so i want to shoot it. Only thing is he hardly ever has time to go to the range with me. Would he or I get in any trouble if i have his gun in my posession???
     
  2. aiformula

    aiformula XDTalk 3K Member

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    only if you are not legally allowed to have firearms of that type in your posession.
     
  3. btadamsdvd

    btadamsdvd XDTalk 100 Member

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    Loaning or Borrowing a Firearm



    Firearms Act section [FA s.] 33: A person may lend a firearm only if (a) the person (i) has reasonable grounds to believe that the borrower holds a licence authorizing the borrower to possess that kind of firearm, and (ii) lends the borrower the registration certificate for the firearm...

    Therefore, you may lend a firearm to a person with a POL, because he "holds a licence authorizing the borrower to possess that kind of firearm." You do not need to do a formal transfer of the firearm, because FA s. 21 says that "For the purposes of sections 22 to 32 (the transfer procedure sections), 'transfer' means sell, barter or give."

    Criminal Code section [CC s.] 84(4)(b)(ii): "84(4) For the purposes of this Part, a person is the holder of... (b) a registration certificate for a firearm if... the person possesses the registration certificate with the permission of its lawful holder."

    Therefore, the borrower is the "holder" of both a licence to possess that kind of firearm and a registration certificate for that particular firearm, so he is in fully legal possession of it.

    You cannot legally lend someone a firearm unless you also lend him the registration certificate, so you cannot lend a firearm that you legally own under the provisions of CC s. 98 unless you have a registration certificate for it to loan with it.

    FA s. 59: "An individual who holds an authorization to carry or an authorization to transport need not be the person to whom the registration certificate for the particular prohibited firearm or restricted firearm was issued."

    Therefore, a borrower can get an authorization to carry or an authorization to transport a borrowed firearm. Often, he will not need an authorization to transport a borrowed handgun, because his existing ATT will cover it by language like, "all restricted firearms and prohibited handguns for which he holds registration certificates" [see CC s. 84(4)(b)(ii)].
     
  4. btadamsdvd

    btadamsdvd XDTalk 100 Member

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    For the United States, as long as you do not fall under the restricted persons definitions of the GCA of 1968.
    This is defined as:
    Convicted felons, fugitives from justice, illegal drug users or addicts, minors, anyone adjudicated mentally defective or having been committed to a mental institution, anyone dishonorably discharged from the military, illegal aliens, anyone having renounced U.S. citizenship.

    Also if he is not one of your parents, you would fall under the same category if you are under 21.
     
  5. Chrscott22

    Chrscott22 XDTalk Newbie

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    Thanks guys. I should be good to go then :D
     
  6. Matt`G

    Matt`G XDTalk 500 Member

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    Check your state laws as well. In MI, it's against the law to borrow someone's handgun.
     
  7. docrice

    docrice XDTalk 100 Member

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    And be especially careful if you're in CA. There's probably a state law somewhere that prohibits you from pointing a gun to the floor if the carpet is beige while the sun is setting and the moon is half visible.

    http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/
     
  8. So Flo

    So Flo XDTalk 20K Member Founding Member

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    Wow...what dumb a$$ law maker came up with that?
    If I want to loan something to someone that I know, I should be able to do that...is it against the law to loan someone your car? :?
     
  9. BBunin

    BBunin XDTalk 2K Member

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    So if I go to visit my brother in MI, I can't go to the range with him and borrow his pistol?
    Could you please cite this reference, bacause i intend to break it HARD the next time I go there!
     
  10. retired

    retired XDTalk 5K Member

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    docrice, you got it all wrong. The carpet has to be purple, the sun rising and the moon has to be full. I can't believe you out of staters can be so ignorant as to how things are done in this state. Jeeze. :D
     
  11. WaltherP99

    WaltherP99 XDTalk 100 Member

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    You forgot to add users of alcohol also! :D
     
  12. Don

    Don Official Site Vendor Supporting Vendor Founding Member

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    A man should never borrow another mans pipe, or wife. But a firearm should be fine. If a man asks to borrow a firearm and a shovel that is usually OK too.

    None of the above should be construed as legal advice.
     
  13. So Flo

    So Flo XDTalk 20K Member Founding Member

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    Retired, I recently read where there is a gun grabber organization that is pushing new legislation that will change that law to note that the moon need only be still in the sky, removing the full and visible clause! :wink:

    Sorry this thread went the wrong way...
     
  14. dave_in_delaware

    dave_in_delaware XDTalk 5K Member

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    I'd play it safe and call and talk TO someone in the Attorney General's office for your location. Get the laws and rules direct from the AG there. That's what I do when I have a firearm law kind of question here.
     
  15. Matt`G

    Matt`G XDTalk 500 Member

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    BBunin, you CAN shoot his pistol at the range. If you are with him, he is still in possession. The problem comes if you were to take his pistol and go to the range by yourself. It's a gray area in MI law (as is a lot of our firearm-related law). There used to be a clause that prohibited borrowing a handgun but that was removed in 2001 I believe. However, MCL 28.429 states that when one comes into possession of a handgun, he must take it in for a safety inspection into the law enforcement agency for the area they live. It never says more than one person can't have a safety inspection done for the same handgun, though.

    It is pretty much assumed in MI that you will be breaking the law if you have possession of your brother's pistol and he is not with you, due to this safety inspection issue. This is why HB 4642 (signed into law and takes effect July 1) was passed to allow someone with a CPL to borrow someone else's handgun.
     
  16. LTC-USA

    LTC-USA XDTalk 1K Member

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    I'd sooner loan you my wife than my XD.
     
  17. nick19

    nick19 XDTalk 500 Member

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    An ole instructor once told me: you can borrow my tools, my car or my wife but never my gun. :)
     
  18. DanaT

    DanaT XDTalk 100 Member

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    Here is an interesting riddel to go along with this.

    In community property states (most states) all property is jointly owned by a husband and wife. So if one of the spouses buys the gun, is the gun considered the posseion of one or both of them?

    What if one spouse is not allowed to own a gun but the other is?

    Luckily for me I don;t have these problems. Where I live, lending a gun is quite alright. I am always borrowing from my dad and vice versa. Nice to live in a place that doesn't require paperwork for private sales...

    -Dana
     
  19. dave_in_delaware

    dave_in_delaware XDTalk 5K Member

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    First question:
    I would think it's considered marital property and therefor both of their's. No problem until divorce time, then who GETS it?

    Second question:
    I believe (in DE anyway), that if spouse #1 is not legally allowed to possess a firearm (or other deadly weapon) due to being a convicted felon but on probation, or having a PFA, etc., then spouse #2 must remove all such weapons from the house. This is because it would be a violation of spouse #1's court order for that house to contain any such weapons where spouse #1 lives, regardless of spose #2 being allowed to possess weapons or not.

    If the probation officer does a surprise inspection at the house, both spouses could get in serious trouble (spouse #1 for violating probation and spouse #2 for ignoring the order and having weapons around for spouse #1).

    This includes all firearms (new or historic) and all bladed weapons (whether in a case or on display or whatever). It excludes such things as kitchen type knives of course.

    Just don't get in trouble w/ the law by beating your spouse, or robbing people, or etc., then everyone can keep their weapons around in their house. :wink:
     
  20. Boma

    Boma XDTalk 500 Member

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    Can you even own a gun legally in a communist country? Kinda doubt it
    . =)
     

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