40 cal. load data?

Discussion in 'The Ammo Can' started by shooterjeff66, Feb 14, 2009.

  1. shooterjeff66

    shooterjeff66 XDTalk Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Northern Calif.
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    looking for load data for 180 gr Berry's with tite group powder,
    other powder ok. Thanks Jeff
     
  2. mcb

    mcb XDTalk 2K Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,244
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    North East Ohio
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Here is the load I was using for USPSA. I chronographed three different charges of Titegroup using Berry's 180gr RNFP bullets. The velocity was measured with a Chrony Alpha chronograph. The gun used was my XD-40 Tactical.

    Powder: 4.15gr Titegroup
    Primer: Federal Match
    Bullet: 180gr Berry's RNFP
    OAL: 1.125inch
    Crimp: 0.421inch
    Average Velocity: 888.2fps
    Power Factor: 159.9


    Powder: 4.3gr Titegroup
    Primer: Federal Match
    Bullet: 180gr Berry's RNFP
    OAL: 1.125inch
    Crimp: 0.421inch
    Average Velocity: 920.5fps
    Power Factor: 165.7


    Powder: 4.5gr Titegroup
    Primer: Federal Match
    Bullet: 180gr Berry's RNFP
    OAL: 1.125inch
    Crimp: 0.421inch
    Average Velocity: 960.0fps
    Power Factor: 172.8

    Hope that is helpful.
    mcb
     
  3. fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    10,293
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    kommiefornia
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0
    I'm not a big fan of TG or other uberfast powders in high pressure rounds like the 40. If you stay off max. loads you can be fine, but watch your OAL & be cautious of bullet setback from rechambering.
    MCB, your load above is running the edge as plated bullets like to be loaded w/ lead bullet data.
     
  4. scooterj

    scooterj XDTalk 500 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    LaPlace, LA
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0
    Tightgroup and factory length 180gr loads is BAD JUJU
     
  5. mcb

    mcb XDTalk 2K Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,244
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    North East Ohio
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    According to Hodgdons online data they recommend a maximum load of 4.7 grains of titegroup under a 180gr bullet. This generates only 33,000psi with max pressure for 40S&W being 35,000psi.

    I do agree that the last load is pushing it for Berry plated bullets. That last 4.5gr load will peal the plating off the bullets.

    Example 1
    Example 2

    I have long since switched away from Berry's. Just about the time I had gotten them to USPSA Major power factor I had problems with the plating coming off and that makes the accuracy drop off badly.

    I have gotten much better results with Montana Gold and Precision Delta bullets. Montana Gold being the better (by quite a bit) of the two IMHO. I had been using Vihtavuori N320 and N340 powder, but am switching back to Titegroup for the cost. I have never used a powder as clean as Vihtavuori but it hard to beat the economics of Titegroup for target loads.

    My new Titegroup loads with probably be bumped out to 1.135-1.140 inch OAL which is about as long as I can get them to feed out of the XD magazine reliably and I also have since used a tighter crimp of 0.419 inch.

    rambling
    mcb
     
  6. fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    10,293
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    kommiefornia
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0
    You make it sound like 2Kpsi is a big jump. Well, 3K-5Kpsi can be eaten up pretty quickly by switching primers or a bullet setback as little as 0.01" or using the jacketed data for plated or lead. Then what everybody seems to neglect, is that data is only good in new components & tight test chambers. You are rolling the dice on uberfasts & heavy bullets running anything close to max. Eventually it will bite you.:(
    FWIW, I doubt much plating is being peeled off @ 950fps. I have run Berry's 124gr in my 357sig to 1200fps w/ exc. accuracy. Go to 1300fps & things start to slip. Are you using the LFCD on your handloads? This has caused all kinds of accuracy issues w/ plated bullets. Overcrimping is the culprit. Either stop using the LFCD or back it off so you are not apllying so much crimp. When I load Berry's or Ranier, I use a std. taper crimp die & just turn the case mouth back.
     
  7. mcb

    mcb XDTalk 2K Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,244
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    North East Ohio
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    It would be a rare case when a change of primer (assuming were not going form std to magnum) will change pressure by 3-5Kpsi. Maybe if we were talking about a really hot compressed powder load but not in the case of a Titegroup load that barely fills the case 1/3 full. As for the plating peeling it was doing it anytime I got much over 920fps in both of my XD-40 and my S&W 610. The links in my above post were to pictures of targets showing the evidence of plating peeling. Changing the crimp (standard Dillon crimp die) did not help much.

    Certain there are dangers to using Titegroup, a double charge and in some cases a triple charge will fit in the case. Other slower bulkier powders makes a double charge far harder to do. Powder check stations on a reloader can help reduce this risk. For competition loads in 40cal for the moderate velocity 180gr loads Titegroup is a very popular choice that is as economical, light recoiling, and fairly clean.

    YMMV
    mcb
     
  8. fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    10,293
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    kommiefornia
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0
    The volumn that TG occupies is not what causes a pressure problem, it's the vert. pressure curve. Yes, I was talking about std. vs mag primers. I see it all the time; "I loaded this w/ a mag primer by mistake". The diff. of a mag primer w/ TG running max. is going to cause trouble, add bullet setback, bang! I'll bet more guns are KB w/ TG & BE, than any other powder. It's fine, an experienced loader can run all day w/ TG, BE, etc & not get into trouble, but newbs, bad juju, KB just waiting to happen. I've seen PCD work & would not want to trust them to accurately trigger such a small volumn charge.
    FWIW, moderate vel. have nothing to do w/ pressures generated. I'm sure you know that, but 180gr 40 o/ TG has to work hard to make major. You can easily get to 900fps w/ a host of other powders & run 8K-10K less pressure. Margin for error, safety zone. That's why I do NOT recommend uberfasts for newbs or even exp. loaders in high pressure rounds except for wimp loads. Even then, TG occupies so little case it's hard to visually verify powder drops & a squib is almost as bad as a double.:shock:
    Other ecomonimcal powders that occupy almost double the space per grain are WST, Solo, RedDot. Still too fast for anything but light to midrange loads though IMO. Cost of powder is just not enough diff. to base my handloads on. It's the cheapest part of a reload.:mrgreen:
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2009
  9. hrt4me

    hrt4me XDTalk Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Thanks for the good info and data
     
  10. 32dgrz

    32dgrz XDTalk Newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    I'm with Fred on this one. WSF is the powder for me when loading 40's
     
  11. agalindo

    agalindo XDTalk 15K Member Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    16,131
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Alpine Texas
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0
    Back when I used to shoot plated bullets I shot many a thousand using 4.0 - 4.2 gr tg 180gr berry's fp.
     
  12. fredj338

    fredj338 XDTalk 10K Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Messages:
    10,293
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    kommiefornia
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0
    My most accurate loads for the 40 w/ 165gr-180gr bullets of any type have come w/ above midrange loads of Unique or WSF. It is my go to powder for the 40 & pretty soon 9mm as well. It's just easier to run in the small volumn cases. If something goes bad, like a bullet setback, the pressure curves are more forgiving than say TG, BE or Clays. Clays seems particularly prone to pressure spiking running near the top end.
    I don't like TG, not for any purpose, one of those reloading quirks. It's fine for the exp. gamer, but not for newbs, not for anyone trying to get safe factory vel level loads, you just have to push it too hard. Keep in mind that pressures are never linear. With everything perfect, 4.5gr maybe fine, then the bullet setsback or you get maybe 4.6gr & pressure accelerate in a vertical fashion, not good. TG & sim powders just leave zero room for error, especially near the top end. I think it's of interest that few reloading manual goes to TG for the 40 but Hodgdon.
    BTW. running uberfasts hard, always back down & work back up if changing primer brands. With Wolf LP, I found they run quite a bit hotter than CCI, Win or Fed. Could be an issue, maybe not, but always play safe.
     

Share This Page

Search tags for this page
40s&w 165grain titegroup load data
,
40 sw montana gold load data
,
40 caliber load with titegroup
,
40 cal load data with 165 gr plated and titegroup
,

180 gr 40 cal tight group reloading data

,
berry's reloading data for 40
,
berrys 155 hbrn bullets in 40 sw with red dot
,

berrys 180 titegroup

,
compitition 40cal load data
,

double charging 40 cal sw load

,
load data 155 gr 40 cal lfp using titegroup powder
,

load data for 40 cal 180 gr

,
load data for xtreme 180 lead 40 cal
,
oal of 40 cal 180gr precision black bullets
,
target loads for 40 using titegroup
,
tight group 40 s&w 180 grain
,
tight group powder load data 40 cal
,
titegroup powder 40 cal loads
,
titlegroup load for 40 cal.
,
wsf 40 xtreme 155