.22LR for Self Defense

Discussion in 'Non-XD Handguns' started by Out_of_Battery, Sep 3, 2012.

?

What is your primary carry caliber?

Poll closed Dec 31, 1969.
  1. .22LR

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  2. .22 MAG

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. .25 ACP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. .380 ACP

    8 vote(s)
    6.2%
  5. 9 MM

    57 vote(s)
    44.2%
  6. .38 SPC

    5 vote(s)
    3.9%
  7. .357 SIG/MAG

    3 vote(s)
    2.3%
  8. .40 SW

    29 vote(s)
    22.5%
  9. .44 MAG

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. .45 ACP/GAP

    48 vote(s)
    37.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Out_of_Battery

    Out_of_Battery XDTalk Newbie

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    Hello everyone, Let me start by making it clear I am not attempting to start a "caliber war", and I am fully aware the difference's between killing power, and stopping power. Still it seems a good majority of gun enthusiasts/owner's who carry a weapon for SD underestimate the stopping/killing power of a .22LR when used in a SD situation. The whole my good old .45 ACP is better than everything on earth concept, and the tiny .22 can not stop the attacker(yet I find it funny because regardless of the choice of caliber used for SD, a determined attacker can/may still kill/hurt the victim even after being stop multiple times), where as throughout history the .22LR has been proven effective at putting criminals in the ground(not always immediatly), or stopping/ending the attack. Despite all of the "bigger is better" guys out their stating "Sure it may kill later, but may not stop the perp instantly" leading to the victim being killed by the perp due to .22lr's lack of effective stopping power, their is very few stories I can find to corroborate said statement. Finally, my question is how many of you guys/girls carry a weapon chambered in .22LR as a primary carry weapon for SD? The notion I assert when carrying is, can I accurately/quickly place my rounds where I need them to be(shot placement), and finally do I feel comfortable with the weapon?

    My rational is both physical, and psychological:

    Psychological: Bigger grants more of a "security blanket" for the operater, and the intimdation effect placed on the perp.

    Physical: This can swing both ways, First being hit in the head(human target) with a baseball bat(1-4 lb's) swinged at 60 mph, vs a bolling ball(8-12 lbs) traveling the same speed(sure given the mass of the bolling ball is most likely going to cause more damage), but the effect will most likey result in death/incompacitation regardless.... hint on shot placement. The other is clear a bigger round can create both greater tissue/organ damage, and a larger hole causing more blood loss at a faster rate.

    My primary carry weapon is a Glock 19 GEN4 LEO Edition, with a backup ruger sr22.

    "One should show limited concern for a person carrying multiple "hand cannons", fear is for the man carrying only the .22 for his aim will almost alway be steady".
     
  2. prof_fate

    prof_fate XDTalk 1K Member

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    Having shot a few small critters a 22LR RIFLE may have some value..a 22LR PISTOL - no way. Not unless you are dead 100% accurate which is very very unlikely.

    I've had rabbits, squirrels (and don't get upset) cats go down with 1 rifle shot. Usually dead by the time I get there on foot, but not always. A second rifle shot does it for sure.
    Pistol? Ha!
    And as the critters get bigger forget even the rifle unless the shot is well placed and 80% of the time a follow up is needed (think groundhogs.).

    I would love to be able to do a real impact test between them. My bolt rifle seems to kill much better (fewer shots) than my mp15-22 semi auto.
    I'll chrono them tonite and report back.
     
  3. windsearcher

    windsearcher XDTalk 3K Member

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    I carry a .40 for multiple reasons.....

    Would I carry a .22 pistol? Only if there was no other choice. Would the .22 work... maybe. I'll see if I can find it.... there was a 14 y/o kid who just shot and killed a home invader (Tx I think) with a .22. Regardless if I can find that link, any search will show that there are plenty of stories (and supporting evidence) that the .22 may be able to stop the threat, and may very well inflict terminal wounds, even with one shot.

    That being said..... the smallest I would personally carry by choice would maybe be a .380 or .38. I started the reply with my preference.
     
  4. Kaboom

    Kaboom XDTalk 10K Member

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    I suppose you meant "shot".

    And I would say, not if it was a Bazooka.
    Gangsters have used 22 for eons.

    Rimfire simply isn't reliable enough regardless of caliber.
     
  5. Cuda66

    Cuda66 XDTalk 10K Member

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    There are some gaping flaws in your statement:

    First off, you seem to be assuming you will be able to make head shots; this is silly. The head a small, armored, highly mobile target; trying to hit it when the range goes two-way is going to be a LOT harder than trying to hit torso.

    Second--your "hint on shot placement" is an argument that people that carry smaller calibers like to toss out, but doesn't hold up to logic--simply being--what factors would make me miss with a 9mm or .45 that you would be able to hit with your .22? Why do you think you will be able to place a .22 better than I will place a .45?

    You give a nod to, but don't give enough credence to fact that .22 is a poor stopper. Sure, you can give some anecdotal data where it works...but there will be numerous more where it failed. The difference between a lethal cartridge and a stopping cartridge is huge.

    In short--carry what you like, but trying to say that a .22 is just as good as a heavier caliber is silly.
     
  6. Out_of_Battery

    Out_of_Battery XDTalk Newbie

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    Keep in mind, practice can most certainly compensate for the calliber. I have been a IPSC member for almost 5 years(yeah I am not your typical recreational shooter). Like I said this is not a caliber war, nor do I intend on turning it into a my dic*, is bigger than your dic*. As with most situations involving self defense, what makes the shooter anymore likely to hit with a .45 over a .22? Stress is stress, and yes .45 in most SD situations is more effective(given shot placement), as goes with most calibers. Shooting someone with either caliber may not yeild the same results for any single person. You can shoot two people with the same caliber in the same region, and the results can/will be different. As with all firearms regardless of size should always be treated with the potentional to inflict death. Furthermore I am not defending the .22lr, or it's effectivness a shot from a .45, or a .22 to the torso, or leg for example may not be fatal, and the perp may continue on with his attempt to harm you regardless. As with a SD situation, any number of variable's can influence the overall outcome.
     
  7. Kaboom

    Kaboom XDTalk 10K Member

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    But shooting someone in the same place in the same way will always have more devastating effects from a 45 compared to a 22.
     
  8. 3shot

    3shot XDTalk 3K Member

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    22LR for Sniping groundhogs at 100 or 200 yards sure!

    A wacked out desperate badguy??????? No Fn' way!!

    Sure there are miracle perfect shots, but come on man....
     
  9. Out_of_Battery

    Out_of_Battery XDTalk Newbie

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    While I agree, shooting someone "In the same place" maybe a tad difficult in a flight or fight situation such a SD. Doesnt that require quick follow up shots?
     
  10. Bonehead

    Bonehead XDTalk 15K Member

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    if a .22LR if what you have, its better than nothing. also hits with a .22LR are better than misses with a .44Magnum.

    I would rather hit with a .44Magnum but things don't always go as you would rather have them.
     
  11. Helpdesk9

    Helpdesk9 XDTalk 20K Member

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    I often carry my P22 around my yard instead of my XD simply because of weight.

    Veni, vidi, edi
     
  12. Gulftanker

    Gulftanker XDTalk 500 Member

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    .40 SW in my XD Subcompact is preferred, with .380 ACP in my LCP as secondary.

    The .357 Mag and .357 Sig should have their own categories, as should .45 ACP and .45 GAP, IMHO...
     
  13. tialloydragon

    tialloydragon XDTalk 500 Member

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    I would consider carrying a 22LR handgun if they could figure out how to make a flush magazine that holds more than 10 rounds. Ammo choice is also a factor. I'd fill it with CCI Stingers or Mini-Mags.

    Here's an article someone posted here, I think:

    Tactical Life Israeli Mossad .22 LRS
     
  14. Cuda66

    Cuda66 XDTalk 10K Member

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    More flaws in your logic:

    More practice with a heavier caliber will yield the same results as practice with a .22; that is, more hits. You seem to not want to acknowledge that simple fact.

    And you seem to be failing to comprehend that when I say "what would make me miss with a .45 when I would hit with a .22", I am not saying they reverse is true--both would be a hit or a miss. So, given the choice between putting a .22LR on target or a .45--when your life is on the line, which would you prefer?

    And the fact is, we do get our preferences; we make that choice every day when we put the handgun on our belt.
     
  15. Cuda66

    Cuda66 XDTalk 10K Member

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    Yeah, that gets posted every now and again. And people just don't seem to catch on to one simple caveat that makes that entire article irrelevant:

    That is, we are not Mossad, or Delta, or GSG-9, or SEALs, or SAS...we do not have their practice or training.
     
  16. LTSRAPCON

    LTSRAPCON XDTalk 100 Member

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    Speak for yourself, I grew up watching Chuck Norris, Sly and Schwarzenegger movies. I am a shooting machine.LOL
    I carry 9mm or 45acp and wouldnt carry a 22lr unless I had no choice.
     
  17. Out_of_Battery

    Out_of_Battery XDTalk Newbie

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    To answer your question, I own several handguns ranging from .22lr all the way up to .357 Mag, and have carried all of them independently as individual carry weapons. It is in my view that all can/may kill another human being, so wether it be a .22lr or a .357 mag both can be used as an effective defense against someone attempting to kill/hurt me. I prefer any weapon that goes boom, when I pull the trigger, and even with my .22 I never feel underpowered because I have respect for the potetional killing power it has, even with a hand cannon there is never a certainty, or a immunity to death caused by another person. Although I do find it a tad easier with follow up(quite accurate) shots with a .22, as well as the feeling of power with my taurus .357 revolver. I fully understand no single round may not be enough to stop a perp, not even the mighty .45 ACP. Wether it be 6 rounds of .22 or 2 rounds of .45 ACP or as many rounds as it take to the stop the perp, tactics(avoiding potentionally dangerous situations), and brain power(situational awareness) are important, the weapon is just a tool.
     
  18. The Weapon

    The Weapon XDTalk 100 Member

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    What about this Keltec? Its not LR but its close and holds 30 rounds.

    Kel Tec CNC

    [​IMG]
     
  19. TCS_XDM

    TCS_XDM XDTalk 1K Member

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    22 Winmag is pretty close in performance to the 5.7x28 that is used in the FN five seven and the P90 and plenty of people are willing to spend 2 grand to buy one of those guns for self defense.

    However I'll stick with my 9mm. The only gun i know off that fires 22 Winmag is that Kel-Tec and I'm not sure about reliability.

    So many companies offer designer ammo for 9mm which makes it the best option for capacity, stopping power, reliability, ease in which to find and purchase ammo. I'm no SHTF guy but it's nice to be able to easily purchase ammo for my gun at Walmart or some where close to me instead of going to a firearms specialty store.
     
  20. SonOfOdin

    SonOfOdin XDTalk 5K Member

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    9mm. I shot a c00n while hunting one time with a Remington 552 Speedmaster (semi-auto). I was using Velocitors and it took all 16 shots plus one shot from my dads .22 to bring it down. Good sized ****, too. Relatively close range, I suspect less that 100 feet.

    Same rifle and load was used to drop .22 on a big, fat groundhog at a little over 200 yards. It took 7 shots total to end him, the last one entering the ear canal. For me, I cannot recommend anything less than a .380 for serious self defense with the proper round.

    .22 is for small game and plinking, not two legged snakes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2012
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