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What is your primary carry caliber?

  • .22LR

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • .22 MAG

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • .25 ACP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • .380 ACP

    Votes: 8 6.2%
  • 9 MM

    Votes: 57 44.2%
  • .38 SPC

    Votes: 5 3.9%
  • .357 SIG/MAG

    Votes: 3 2.3%
  • .40 SW

    Votes: 29 22.5%
  • .44 MAG

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • .45 ACP/GAP

    Votes: 48 37.2%
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.22LR for Self Defense

12K views 84 replies 34 participants last post by  justgotback 
#1 ·
Hello everyone, Let me start by making it clear I am not attempting to start a "caliber war", and I am fully aware the difference's between killing power, and stopping power. Still it seems a good majority of gun enthusiasts/owner's who carry a weapon for SD underestimate the stopping/killing power of a .22LR when used in a SD situation. The whole my good old .45 ACP is better than everything on earth concept, and the tiny .22 can not stop the attacker(yet I find it funny because regardless of the choice of caliber used for SD, a determined attacker can/may still kill/hurt the victim even after being stop multiple times), where as throughout history the .22LR has been proven effective at putting criminals in the ground(not always immediatly), or stopping/ending the attack. Despite all of the "bigger is better" guys out their stating "Sure it may kill later, but may not stop the perp instantly" leading to the victim being killed by the perp due to .22lr's lack of effective stopping power, their is very few stories I can find to corroborate said statement. Finally, my question is how many of you guys/girls carry a weapon chambered in .22LR as a primary carry weapon for SD? The notion I assert when carrying is, can I accurately/quickly place my rounds where I need them to be(shot placement), and finally do I feel comfortable with the weapon?

My rational is both physical, and psychological:

Psychological: Bigger grants more of a "security blanket" for the operater, and the intimdation effect placed on the perp.

Physical: This can swing both ways, First being hit in the head(human target) with a baseball bat(1-4 lb's) swinged at 60 mph, vs a bolling ball(8-12 lbs) traveling the same speed(sure given the mass of the bolling ball is most likely going to cause more damage), but the effect will most likey result in death/incompacitation regardless.... hint on shot placement. The other is clear a bigger round can create both greater tissue/organ damage, and a larger hole causing more blood loss at a faster rate.

My primary carry weapon is a Glock 19 GEN4 LEO Edition, with a backup ruger sr22.

"One should show limited concern for a person carrying multiple "hand cannons", fear is for the man carrying only the .22 for his aim will almost alway be steady".
 
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#2 ·
Having shot a few small critters a 22LR RIFLE may have some value..a 22LR PISTOL - no way. Not unless you are dead 100% accurate which is very very unlikely.

I've had rabbits, squirrels (and don't get upset) cats go down with 1 rifle shot. Usually dead by the time I get there on foot, but not always. A second rifle shot does it for sure.
Pistol? Ha!
And as the critters get bigger forget even the rifle unless the shot is well placed and 80% of the time a follow up is needed (think groundhogs.).

I would love to be able to do a real impact test between them. My bolt rifle seems to kill much better (fewer shots) than my mp15-22 semi auto.
I'll chrono them tonite and report back.
 
#3 ·
I carry a .40 for multiple reasons.....

Would I carry a .22 pistol? Only if there was no other choice. Would the .22 work... maybe. I'll see if I can find it.... there was a 14 y/o kid who just shot and killed a home invader (Tx I think) with a .22. Regardless if I can find that link, any search will show that there are plenty of stories (and supporting evidence) that the .22 may be able to stop the threat, and may very well inflict terminal wounds, even with one shot.

That being said..... the smallest I would personally carry by choice would maybe be a .380 or .38. I started the reply with my preference.
 
#4 ·
yet I find it funny because regardless of the choice of caliber used for SD, a determined attacker can/may still kill/hurt the victim even after being stop multiple times
I suppose you meant "shot".

And I would say, not if it was a Bazooka.
Gangsters have used 22 for eons.

Rimfire simply isn't reliable enough regardless of caliber.
 
#5 ·
There are some gaping flaws in your statement:

First being hit in the head(human target) with a baseball bat(1-4 lb's) swinged at 60 mph, vs a bolling ball(8-12 lbs) traveling the same speed(sure given the mass of the bolling ball is most likely going to cause more damage), but the effect will most likey result in death/incompacitation regardless.... hint on shot placement
First off, you seem to be assuming you will be able to make head shots; this is silly. The head a small, armored, highly mobile target; trying to hit it when the range goes two-way is going to be a LOT harder than trying to hit torso.

Second--your "hint on shot placement" is an argument that people that carry smaller calibers like to toss out, but doesn't hold up to logic--simply being--what factors would make me miss with a 9mm or .45 that you would be able to hit with your .22? Why do you think you will be able to place a .22 better than I will place a .45?

You give a nod to, but don't give enough credence to fact that .22 is a poor stopper. Sure, you can give some anecdotal data where it works...but there will be numerous more where it failed. The difference between a lethal cartridge and a stopping cartridge is huge.

In short--carry what you like, but trying to say that a .22 is just as good as a heavier caliber is silly.
 
#6 ·
There are some gaping flaws in your statement:



First off, you seem to be assuming you will be able to make head shots; this is silly. The head a small, armored, highly mobile target; trying to hit it when the range goes two-way is going to be a LOT harder than trying to hit torso.

Second--your "hint on shot placement" is an argument that people that carry smaller calibers like to toss out, but doesn't hold up to logic--simply being--what factors would make me miss with a 9mm or .45 that you would be able to hit with your .22? Why do you think you will be able to place a .22 better than I will place a .45?

You give a nod to, but don't give enough credence to fact that .22 is a poor stopper. Sure, you can give some anecdotal data where it works...but there will be numerous more where it failed. The difference between a lethal cartridge and a stopping cartridge is huge.

In short--carry what you like, but trying to say that a .22 is just as good as a heavier caliber is silly.

Keep in mind, practice can most certainly compensate for the calliber. I have been a IPSC member for almost 5 years(yeah I am not your typical recreational shooter). Like I said this is not a caliber war, nor do I intend on turning it into a my dic*, is bigger than your dic*. As with most situations involving self defense, what makes the shooter anymore likely to hit with a .45 over a .22? Stress is stress, and yes .45 in most SD situations is more effective(given shot placement), as goes with most calibers. Shooting someone with either caliber may not yeild the same results for any single person. You can shoot two people with the same caliber in the same region, and the results can/will be different. As with all firearms regardless of size should always be treated with the potentional to inflict death. Furthermore I am not defending the .22lr, or it's effectivness a shot from a .45, or a .22 to the torso, or leg for example may not be fatal, and the perp may continue on with his attempt to harm you regardless. As with a SD situation, any number of variable's can influence the overall outcome.
 
#7 ·
Keep in mind, practice can most certainly compensate for the calliber. I have been a IPSC member for almost 5 years(yeah I am not your typical recreational shooter). Like I said this is not a caliber war, nor do I intend on turning it into a my dic*, is bigger than your dic*. As with most situations involving self defense, what makes the shooter anymore likely to hit with a .45 over a .22? Stress is stress, and yes .45 in most SD situations is more effective(given shot placement), as goes with most calibers. Shooting someone is the either caliber may not yeild the same results for any single person. You can shoot two people with the same caliber in the same region, and the results can/will be different. As with all firearms regardless of size should always be treated with the potentional to inflict death.
But shooting someone in the same place in the same way will always have more devastating effects from a 45 compared to a 22.
 
#8 ·
22LR for Sniping groundhogs at 100 or 200 yards sure!

A wacked out desperate badguy??????? No Fn' way!!

Sure there are miracle perfect shots, but come on man....
 
#12 ·
.40 SW in my XD Subcompact is preferred, with .380 ACP in my LCP as secondary.

The .357 Mag and .357 Sig should have their own categories, as should .45 ACP and .45 GAP, IMHO...
 
#14 ·
Keep in mind, practice can most certainly compensate for the calliber. I have been a IPSC member for almost 5 years(yeah I am not your typical recreational shooter). Like I said this is not a caliber war, nor do I intend on turning it into a my dic*, is bigger than your dic*. As with most situations involving self defense, what makes the shooter anymore likely to hit with a .45 over a .22? Stress is stress, and yes .45 in most SD situations is more effective(given shot placement), as goes with most calibers. Shooting someone with either caliber may not yeild the same results for any single person. You can shoot two people with the same caliber in the same region, and the results can/will be different. As with all firearms regardless of size should always be treated with the potentional to inflict death. Furthermore I am not defending the .22lr, or it's effectivness a shot from a .45, or a .22 to the torso, or leg for example may not be fatal, and the perp may continue on with his attempt to harm you regardless. As with a SD situation, any number of variable's can influence the overall outcome.
More flaws in your logic:

More practice with a heavier caliber will yield the same results as practice with a .22; that is, more hits. You seem to not want to acknowledge that simple fact.

And you seem to be failing to comprehend that when I say "what would make me miss with a .45 when I would hit with a .22", I am not saying they reverse is true--both would be a hit or a miss. So, given the choice between putting a .22LR on target or a .45--when your life is on the line, which would you prefer?

And the fact is, we do get our preferences; we make that choice every day when we put the handgun on our belt.
 
#15 ·
I would consider carrying a 22LR handgun if they could figure out how to make a flush magazine that holds more than 10 rounds. Ammo choice is also a factor. I'd fill it with CCI Stingers or Mini-Mags.

Here's an article someone posted here, I think:

Tactical Life Israeli Mossad .22 LRS
Yeah, that gets posted every now and again. And people just don't seem to catch on to one simple caveat that makes that entire article irrelevant:

That is, we are not Mossad, or Delta, or GSG-9, or SEALs, or SAS...we do not have their practice or training.
 
#16 ·
Yeah, that gets posted every now and again. And people just don't seem to catch on to one simple caveat that makes that entire article irrelevant:

That is, we are not Mossad, or Delta, or GSG-9, or SEALs, or SAS...we do not have their practice or training.
Speak for yourself, I grew up watching Chuck Norris, Sly and Schwarzenegger movies. I am a shooting machine.LOL
I carry 9mm or 45acp and wouldnt carry a 22lr unless I had no choice.
 
#17 ·
More flaws in your logic:

More practice with a heavier caliber will yield the same results as practice with a .22; that is, more hits. You seem to not want to acknowledge that simple fact.

And you seem to be failing to comprehend that when I say "what would make me miss with a .45 when I would hit with a .22", I am not saying they reverse is true--both would be a hit or a miss. So, given the choice between putting a .22LR on target or a .45--when your life is on the line, which would you prefer?

And the fact is, we do get our preferences; we make that choice every day when we put the handgun on our belt.

To answer your question, I own several handguns ranging from .22lr all the way up to .357 Mag, and have carried all of them independently as individual carry weapons. It is in my view that all can/may kill another human being, so wether it be a .22lr or a .357 mag both can be used as an effective defense against someone attempting to kill/hurt me. I prefer any weapon that goes boom, when I pull the trigger, and even with my .22 I never feel underpowered because I have respect for the potetional killing power it has, even with a hand cannon there is never a certainty, or a immunity to death caused by another person. Although I do find it a tad easier with follow up(quite accurate) shots with a .22, as well as the feeling of power with my taurus .357 revolver. I fully understand no single round may not be enough to stop a perp, not even the mighty .45 ACP. Wether it be 6 rounds of .22 or 2 rounds of .45 ACP or as many rounds as it take to the stop the perp, tactics(avoiding potentionally dangerous situations), and brain power(situational awareness) are important, the weapon is just a tool.
 
#18 ·
#19 ·
22 Winmag is pretty close in performance to the 5.7x28 that is used in the FN five seven and the P90 and plenty of people are willing to spend 2 grand to buy one of those guns for self defense.

However I'll stick with my 9mm. The only gun i know off that fires 22 Winmag is that Kel-Tec and I'm not sure about reliability.

So many companies offer designer ammo for 9mm which makes it the best option for capacity, stopping power, reliability, ease in which to find and purchase ammo. I'm no SHTF guy but it's nice to be able to easily purchase ammo for my gun at Walmart or some where close to me instead of going to a firearms specialty store.
 
#20 · (Edited)
9mm. I shot a c00n while hunting one time with a Remington 552 Speedmaster (semi-auto). I was using Velocitors and it took all 16 shots plus one shot from my dads .22 to bring it down. Good sized ****, too. Relatively close range, I suspect less that 100 feet.

Same rifle and load was used to drop .22 on a big, fat groundhog at a little over 200 yards. It took 7 shots total to end him, the last one entering the ear canal. For me, I cannot recommend anything less than a .380 for serious self defense with the proper round.

.22 is for small game and plinking, not two legged snakes.
 
#21 ·
if a .22LR if what you have, its better than nothing. also hits with a .22LR are better than misses with a .44Magnum.

I would rather hit with a .44Magnum but things don't always go as you would rather have them.

I've seen this argument before, specifically the if a .22LR if what you have, its better than nothing.

Why would that be all you have?
If you are considering a weapon to have for self defense that won't be on the list of choices.
Cost? You can get a used 380, 38, or 9 for less than many 22's.
Cost to shoot? Maybe. But few folks put cost of ammo as a prime consideration in self defense.

And in the OPs instance...he's carrying two guns (so cost is not an issue I assume) and he shoots competitively (so ammo costs are not much concern).

Most people prolly feel if attacked they want the biggest, baddest whatever to defend themselves - be that a given caliber, rounds in the mag, baseball bat or bowling ball.

Chrono results -
Shot CCI minimag from a SW15-22 rilfe. CCI has on the box '1260fps' and these are HP, so 37gr I suppose, give or take 1gr. Avg FPS was 1247.

Now if we convert that to ftlbs of energy at the target we get 127ftlbs.
For comparison, a 9mm 125 at 1100 fps is gonna give you 319 - 2.5 times as much punch.
A 230 gr 45 at 900 fps does 413, 3.2 times what the 22LR does.
Whats you wants is a 357 mag. A 158 gr bullet traveling at 1450 fps hits with 737 ft lbs of energy. More than double the 9, nearly double the 45 and nearly 6 times what a 22LR does. You'll need all 30 rounds of 22out of that keltec or 6 out of a SW J frame.
 
#22 ·
I've seen this argument before, specifically the if a .22LR if what you have, its better than nothing.

Why would that be all you have?
If you are considering a weapon to have for self defense that won't be on the list of choices.
Cost? You can get a used 380, 38, or 9 for less than many 22's.
Cost to shoot? Maybe. But few folks put cost of ammo as a prime consideration in self defense.

And in the OPs instance...he's carrying two guns (so cost is not an issue I assume) and he shoots competitively (so ammo costs are not much concern).

Most people prolly feel if attacked they want the biggest, baddest whatever to defend themselves - be that a given caliber, rounds in the mag, baseball bat or bowling ball.

I have a buddy that all he can manage is a .410 Mossberg 500 and a used pre accu trigger MKII bolt action .22LR. the rifle seems quite nice and I am a bit jealous.

I spent a good bit of time trying to advise him on a 9mm and away from a .38 wheel gun. he keeps telling me 250 or less. so I am showing him a keltec that I think he is going to look at next time he is out shopping for guns.

I don't know if its HIM or his wife or what it is. he gets weird when I am talking capacity and reloads.

I try to impress him that its not about hunting or a range toy, its about preventing people from harming his family. he isn't a gun guy but he is working on it. he surprised me with his purchases or I would have tried to guide him a bit but I can't exactly say he did wrong.

they are both wife approved and she is willing to go shoot them with him. maybe in a while when their comfort level is higher they will move up but for now I tell him if that's what you have it will do. its better than what you had before.
 
#23 ·
I've seen this argument before, specifically the if a .22LR if what you have, its better than nothing.

Why would that be all you have?
If you are considering a weapon to have for self defense that won't be on the list of choices.
Cost? You can get a used 380, 38, or 9 for less than many 22's.
Cost to shoot? Maybe. But few folks put cost of ammo as a prime consideration in self defense.

And in the OPs instance...he's carrying two guns (so cost is not an issue I assume) and he shoots competitively (so ammo costs are not much concern).

Most people prolly feel if attacked they want the biggest, baddest whatever to defend themselves - be that a given caliber, rounds in the mag, baseball bat or bowling ball.

Chrono results -
Shot CCI minimag from a SW15-22 rilfe. CCI has on the box '1260fps' and these are HP, so 37gr I suppose, give or take 1gr. Avg FPS was 1247.

Now if we convert that to ftlbs of energy at the target we get 127ftlbs.
For comparison, a 9mm 125 at 1100 fps is gonna give you 319 - 2.5 times as much punch.
A 230 gr 45 at 900 fps does 413, 3.2 times what the 22LR does.
Whats you wants is a 357 mag. A 158 gr bullet traveling at 1450 fps hits with 737 ft lbs of energy. More than double the 9, nearly double the 45 and nearly 6 times what a 22LR does. You'll need all 30 rounds of 22out of that keltec or 6 out of a SW J frame.
Well to be fair that Kel-Tec (my phone tries to autocorrect that to melted coincidence?) is 22 magnum so well just take the 40gr hornady v-max at 1950 FPS comes out to 340 ft lbs of muzzle energy. So your results are slightly off. But if the second round jams anyway the disadvantage is worse then you described.
 
#25 ·
#26 ·
So is a stick with a nail in it, but it won't be my choice for SD either.

If it was all you had, you'd use a .22.
 
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