.223 Green tip questions.

Discussion in 'The Ammo Can' started by Ruaerikoholic, Mar 28, 2011.

  1. Ruaerikoholic

    Ruaerikoholic XDTalk 100 Member

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    Is the .223 Green tip "penetrator" really a vastly superior penetrating round when compared to the .223 FMJ?

    what is this stuff supposed to penetrate?
     
  2. agalindo

    agalindo XDTalk 15K Member Founding Member

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    Yes it is.
    Here's the thing against people not wearing armor it is nowhere as good as a good HP or SP when it comes to stopping someone. Unless your shooting at armor or other plating there's not need for it.
     
  3. HEREIAM

    HEREIAM XDTalk Member

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    The Green Tip Ammo was originally meant to be a round for the Squad Automatic Weapon. It was designed with the anticipation that we would be facing Warsaw Pact forces with body armor. The requirements for the round were that it had to penetrate so many mm's of kevlar at such and such a range. I don't remember the exact details. It has a tungsten tip to enhance penetration. The newer M16A2's and their on out could stabalize both rounds. Some of the M16A1's still in the inventory cannot stabalize the new round. The green tip is to make certain the new rounds aren't put in the older guns. Since the round was heavier than the old M193 (62grs. vs. 55grs.) their was a change in rifling to accomodate the heavier bullet.
    Well the Warsaw Pact threat disappeared for the most part. What we ended up fighting are mostly guerilla wars. Unarmored insurgents with AK's, RPG's, usually underfeed and often on drugs. The original M193 did it's damage by becoming unstable upon impacting soft tissue. It would yaw after a couple of inches, tumble, and often fragment causing devestating wounds. To accomplish this the velocity has to stay above 2700 f.p.s. in the lighter rounds. The green tip will also fragment but not as easily as the older round. Then put the rounds into a shorter barrel like the M4's and the fragmentation range drops off rapidly. The 20" barrels still due well to a couple hundred meters with the green tip. With no fragmentation you are basically hitting someone with a .22 Magnum.
    As mentioned earlier get someone on drugs, skinny, no body armor and the rounds zip right through them. Far from ideal. Good hits will still do the job. But the green tip doesn't penetrate armored vehicles all that well and doesn't fragment as well through the M4. So the round does nothing all that well. The new optics have helped quite a bit. A good cardiac, spine, or brain shot and they go down. But both the Army and Marines are fielding new rounds that are more appropriate to the combat situation we are in. Not the one we thought we'd be in.
    The good news is as civilians we are not hampered by treaties and such. We can purchase JHP's, JSP's, and all manner of bullets to make the 5.56 a very effective round within it's design parameters. About 300 meters on in. So if you must use fmj the M193 would probably be the better round. But you can get better rounds if heavy penetration is needed than the green tip. And you can get rounds that fragment better than the M193.
     
  4. Ruaerikoholic

    Ruaerikoholic XDTalk 100 Member

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    Alright awesome, Does tis round have more common problems then a standard FMJ due to the green tip?
     
  5. agalindo

    agalindo XDTalk 15K Member Founding Member

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    Common problems such as?
     
  6. Cuda66

    Cuda66 XDTalk 10K Member

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    The only problem that M855/SS109 has over most other FMJ is that it's usually more expensive...
     
  7. Ruaerikoholic

    Ruaerikoholic XDTalk 100 Member

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    I was wondering if the tip may have caused more FTE, or FTF's or anything else.
     
  8. agalindo

    agalindo XDTalk 15K Member Founding Member

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    No, why would it? It's just paint.
     
  9. Ruaerikoholic

    Ruaerikoholic XDTalk 100 Member

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    Hence why I was asking questions about the round, I needed info on it. I figured this was appropriate
     
  10. Groo

    Groo XDTalk 10K Member

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    Would the heavier green tips be better in a bone hit than the M193? I'm thinking heavy bones here, not zombie skulls. I imagine they'd be better shooting through windshields and light cover, or is relying on common sense misleading in this case?

    I am thinking of picking up 1k rounds of the SS109, because I think they will be a little better than the FMJ in some situations and not too much worse in the others. They should also better replicate the ballistics of most hunting(non-varmint) and SD ammo too being that they are nearer in weight than the FMJ

    FWIW, It'll be heading out of a 18" 1:9 barrel. I kind of wish it was a 20" 1:12, then there'd be no question what to get.
     
  11. agalindo

    agalindo XDTalk 15K Member Founding Member

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    No the green tips are designed to penetrate light armor not to cause maximum tissue disruption. Why handicap yourself with military fmj bullets?

     
  12. Groo

    Groo XDTalk 10K Member

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    Because they are one heck of a lot cheaper to stock up on. I know there are better bullet designs out there, but it is hard to justify twice the price (or more) of the 55r FMJ. The green tips can be had for about 10% more. That I can justify springing for when doing a bulk purchase. I do intend to get some better bullets too, but the bulk of the cache will by M193 or M855. That is why I was specifically asking between those two....

    If you have a source for cheap JSPs, I am all ears.
     
  13. agalindo

    agalindo XDTalk 15K Member Founding Member

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    Reload.
     
  14. Ruaerikoholic

    Ruaerikoholic XDTalk 100 Member

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    How would this round fair against game. I.e deer?
     
  15. Cuda66

    Cuda66 XDTalk 10K Member

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    It'd be illegal in most states, since it's not an expanding round.
     

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