Suggestions on buying a 1911 .45

[mattsnuked]

Honestly do research and find the pistol you want, a hundred 1911 fans will give a hundred different answers. It's what’s so great about them, you can personalize the tool to fit your needs. I've owned Kimbers, Springers and Colts, it's what you really like best about a certain one that will matter.

That said here's my opinion. I personally like Colt, they're a lot better that what they used to be, they are the original 1911, and they will hold their value better than any other 1911. A great gun for the money and you can add what you want on it rather than having it come from the factory with parts that everyone else has on theirs. Custom gun makers and customizers drool over working on a pony. Springfields are awesome pistols also, with the loaded models you get everything you need and the milspec models are good as well. Kimber IMO isn’t worth the money, too many MIM parts, and their warranty department is horrible now that they have sold a ton of pistols. If anything is wrong, it's your fault. As with any tool you can have a great one or a lemon, this is just my experience.

Have fun shopping and let us know what you got.

[Delija]

Well today I got over to my local range/gun shop and fired two different 1911 .45s.

One was the counter guy's personal weapon (one of many...he seems to have a different gun on his hip every time I see him, so maybe he just takes what he feels like by the day). It was a Springfield...not exactly positive which model. The other one was a gun that I'm embarrassed to say I don't remember. It too could have been a Springfield.

The differences between the two guns were the guy's personal gun...the nicer gun...had the big beaver tail safety grip, whereas the other gun had the older more standard smaller grip. The higher hand position felt a bit more comfortable at the counter, but in truth, if he did not point it out to me, I'm not positive I would have noticed.

The other thing the nicer gun had was it had a front sight that was the enclosed capsule type......I did not notice that it "glowed", but it was far more visible than the low metal sight on the other gun.

Results: I was more accurate with the more expensive gun. (I have no idea what the price of either gun was, since they were not marked and both used....could have been rental guns, neither seemed well cleaned).

I don't know if I should attribute the better accuracy to the higher hand position, or to the sight.

I also shot my XD 9 Subcompact and was more accurate with it than with either of the .45s from the same distance (25 feet). I guess it was a matter of being just more comfortable with what I am used to. I can't see how my 3 inch barrel can be more accurate than the longer (5 inch)barrels on either of the 45s. But I'm no expert, so if someone has another reason, I'm all ears.

I also shot a Browing Hi-Power. Of the four guns, it was the most accurate. But not much different than my Sub. And certainly not as accurate as a long barreled .22 Ruger I had shot about a week ago (but it was a really messed up gun and jammed a few times in each 10 round magazine....that same day I shot a Walther P22, but was disappointed. Not accurate, and just did nothing for me.....very light and very small compared to the Ruger, but who needs concealable for a .22? (And certainly it's not a pocket gun...probably about the same size as my Sub9..just lighter).

One thing I noticed was the nicer (more expensive) .45 I shot today did stovepipe a few times....easy enough to clear, but I am spoiled by my XD. The ammo was the same they always sell (PMC), so it had never jammed in my XD, or for that matter in the other .45. Maybe the gun was just dirty.....as I said, while the guy had the gun on his hip, I got the feeling it was one of their many rental guns. BTW, speaking of rentals...some guy rented a machine gun...a 9mm but boy that noise really adds up...and some other guy was shooting a howitzer down the range from me ..probably a .50 caliber S&W, or maybe a Desert Eagle ...maybe even just a .44, but BOY was it loud. And I was expecting the .45s to be louder than my 9mm, so instead of just having "muffs" on, I had earplugs underneath. I was surprised that the .45s did not seem noticeably louder nor did they seem to "kick" noticeably more than my XD. The Hi-Power DID seem to "kick" more than the Sub9, which made no sense to me at all, and when I mentioned this to the shop guy, he told me I was wrong....all I know is I felt what I felt...and was very surprised. Made no sense.

The NEW guns they had on display were out of my budget (at least for the day....I didn't want to jump into anything quite yet).

When I got home, I looked at gunbroker.com and also at the Springfield web sit. It seems like Gunbroker's prices are approximately 20% less (plus shipping, etc).

The prices at the local store seemed pretty much to be MSRP.

Now when I go there, they have been very nice to me. But I also pay top dollar (I think). My Sub9 I paid $350 used....not bad, but that was with one 10 round magazine, no box, no lock, no nothing. So add in what I did not get, and I figure I paid pretty close to what a new gun would cost (at a good very good price) somewhere else. No regrets though. The gun fires 100% and I couldn't care less about the box. An extra magazine would have been nice.

Also, as I said, this place will let me shoot pretty much anything I want. They'll give me a handful of bullets and not charge me (today, with two forty fives, yeah,they sold me a box of 50 cartridges, which seemed fair).

Any opinions on how I should go about establishing a purchase price? Should I print out the prices I see from gunbroker.com and bring them with me? Or is 20% fairly standard?

I saw they had a SA stainless loaded in stock...list price on the SA site and their price were the same.....$860. On Gunbroker.com the same gun is $665 (buy it now). That's a discount of ~ 22.5 %.....Certainly significant...$195.

Is this the way to make an offer? Any suggestion?

TIA

Peace,
D.

[mattsnuked]

$860 is way too expensive for a loaded model but $665 sounds about right. Most shops I've dealt with have a take it or leave it attitude when buying guns. I don't think they'll bite and lose that much when they could sell it to some sucker, but it never hurts to ask. I'd try looking around to compare prices in your neighborhood.

[mattsnuked]

Looking on GunsAmerica they have some good deals.


A bitone loaded for $575 NIB.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976484459.htm

All blued for $634 NIB.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976319653.htm

Stainless for $665 NIB.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976509531.htm

You just have to pay shipping fees to your local dealer and no tax.

[Delija]

Originally Posted by mattsnuked

Stainless for $665 NIB.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976509531.htm

You just have to pay shipping fees to your local dealer and no tax.

Thanks...this is the gun I was talking about.

Peace,
D.

[Brickboy240]

Funny how the Hi-Power was the most accurate of all.

I have a slightly modded Belgian Hi-Power and I have to admit, it regularly out-groups my 1911s and the XD-40. It is the most accurate 9mm pistol I have ever shot and I dumped the Beretta, Glock and SW 9mms I used to own and only kept one 9mm - the Hi-Power. Why this pistol does not get the credit it deserves is beyond me - it is an excellent shooting well made product. Not cheap, though!

I have found that both of my 1911s will out-group my XD-40, but not by much. Why you shot poorly with the 1911s probably has to do with familiarity. I never shoot worth a damn with any pistol I am not familiar with - I don't care how expensive it is. Your experience seems normal to me.

If you really have your heart set on a 1911, a Springfield Mil-Spec with a nice trigger-job by a competent smith and some Wilson mags ought to set you up nicely for under 600 bucks. This is what I have as one of my 1911s and I love it - it is every bit as accurate as the Colt GM it replaced and I have never expereinced a stovepipe or any sort of jam.

You see, the 1911, moreso that any other pistol, needs to have a slight bit of smithing done, before you can really see what its like. Simply shooting a 1911 (or Hi-Power for that matter) right out of the box is a poor exercise in how the pistol can really perform. You need to have the internals polished and the feed ramp checked for feeding. At the same time, having the extractor properly tensioned is a must for reliability. Once you do these small things, you will notice a HUGE difference in how your bone stock 1911 shoots and performs.

Also, it does not hurt to look into swapping the grips to ones that fit your hands better. Look at several types; rubber wrap arounds, ultra thin wood grips...you name it. Grips can change the feel of a 1911 drastically and that affects shoot-ability.

I know it sounds like alot of trouble, but this is the thing that most 1911 fans (like me) find appealing about this platform: you literally can set the pistol up anyway that suits you. Unlike most other designs...it is utterly tuneable to whatever you want and yes...when set up right...the 1911 can be VERY accurate and VERY reliable.

I'd buy a stock Mil-Spec and have the basic smithing done...THEN decide if you need anything else added to make it fly right for you. You will find that some things are a must for you and other things are unnecessary or annoying. I am soooo glad I did not spend 100s more for full length guide rods, front cocking serrations and beavertail safties when I was newer to the 1911...I found I did not need them and spent the extra money on practice ammo and a good holster!

Me? I like smooth internals, a Wilson Bulletproof extractor, Wolff reciol spring, an arched mainspring housing, long trigger, Wilson magazines and checkered wood grips...all that other 1911 stuff does nothing for me, really!

-Brickboy240

[Delija]

Originally Posted by Brickboy240

Funny how the Hi-Power was the most accurate of all.

I have found that both of my 1911s will out-group my XD-40, but not by much. Why you shot poorly with the 1911s probably has to do with familiarity. I never shoot worth a damn with any pistol I am not familiar with - I don't care how expensive it is. Your experience seems normal to me.

If you really have your heart set on a 1911, a Springfield Mil-Spec with a nice trigger-job by a competent smith and some Wilson mags ought to set you up nicely for under 600 bucks. This is what I have as one of my 1911s and I love it - it is every bit as accurate as the Colt GM it replaced and I have never expereinced a stovepipe or any sort of jam.

You see, the 1911, moreso that any other pistol, needs to have a slight bit of smithing done, before you can really see what its like. Simply shooting a 1911 (or Hi-Power for that matter) right out of the box is a poor exercise in how the pistol can really perform. ....


Once you do these small things, you will notice a HUGE difference in how your bone stock 1911 shoots and performs.


-Brickboy240

Great reply...thanks. I was wondering about the value of the big beaver tail grip safety and even adjustable sights...the gun store guy, a real shooter..has taught thousands in the Marines, police, and civilians...told me that virtually no one adjusts their adjustable sights.

Your comments on the gun not really performing out of the box makes more sense than I like to think about.

My XD seems to shoot quite well. But I see on the SA site that a full "tuneup" from the factory for any XD is a cool $750....far more than any XD costs to start.

Guess I have some more research to do!!!

Thanks again!

Peace,
D.

[Brickboy240]

I don't know about your locale, but where I live, there are many 1911-savvy smiths and to perform a simple internal polishing, extractor adjustment and feed ramp polish on a bone stock Mil-Spec 1911 would run anywhere from 50-75 dollars.

I paid Jack Green (a well noted 1911 guru) about 70 bucks to do this to my stainless Mil-Spec and man...was it worth it!

Beware the biggie shops and Springfield's "package" deals. You'll end up paying for all sorts of unnecessary crap being done. 750 dollars seems high, but I am not sure what all they're doing. Being new to the 1911...you probably won't notice most of it, so why pay for it?

Before you buy a new 1911, like the SA Mil-Spec, I'd call some local smiths and ask about what they'd charge for a trigger job, exctractor adjustment and feed ramp polish. I'd be shocked it if runs more than 100 bucks.

You MAY want to add sights later, but those basics ought to get you going and after you become accustomed to the pistol...then, you'll know if you need to swap the sights. The choices on replacement sights for the 1911 are virtually endless.

Lets see...a SA Mil-Spec 1911 runs about 500-550 dollars...the smithing, another 50-75...grips, anywhere from 35 for Houge rubbers to 75 for exptic woods...25 dollars for a Wilson magazine. You could have a very nice set-up for around 700 bucks. Thats exactly what I have and I love it and it is VERY accurate and VERY reliable. I plan on doing no more mods to this pistol at all - they're simply not necessary for my purposes.

Good luck...let us know what you wind up buying...and welcome to the addiction. The 1911 is a great platform and deserves all the respect it gets. I love my XD-40 and Hi-Power, but my safe will always contain at least two 1911s!

-Brickboy240