self-defense story

[Frogman77]

gotcha.. thanks for clarifying for me..

[stbarsh]

It was in York, PA, not NY...that helps a little

[Cannibul]

Originally Posted by Zebra3

If the news story contains everything, and is valid, then this is unreasonable force and was potentially an unjustified shooting; apparently, nobody's life was in immediate danger. Just because you carry a gun does not make you Matt Dillon. The act of pulling the weapon against an unarmed man could actually have escalated the situation, and may be the Achilles heel for the potential accused.

By the way, this was in NY, not Texas, so whatever happened in TX previously has no bearing. "Justifiable" homicide has different degrees of meaning in disparate states. For example, in some parts of this country you can apparently shoot Japanese exchange students wearing Halloween masks on your front lawn after going back inside to get your gun, instead of doing what any other sensible person would do and lock the door and call the cops if something felt of of place. I firmly doubt the same verdict would have occurred in NY as did in LA. Primer: Yoshihiro Hattori - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even if there are no charges brought, a civil lawsuit in NY would probably not fall in the shooter's favor.

Why don't you go hang out on the Brady forum. I'm sure you would feel right at home there.

Here is the important part of the story which you either forgot to read or did not understand.

The people in the two cars confronted each other in the 400 block of East Philadelphia Street in York. The fight turned physical, and Need hit one of the women, police said.
A family member from a car driving behind them tried to help them fight Need but was punched, police said. Need was yelling and threatening the women's lives, police said.
Need and his passenger were arguing and fighting with the people from the other car, police said, when another man in another vehicle stopped to intervene.
Police said the man was armed and told Need to back off. The man fired at least one warning shot. At some point, Need approached the man "aggressively" and was shot, police said. The bullet severed Need's femoral artery. The 42-year-old died at York Hospital soon after his arrival, police said.

So. He had struck one woman. Struck another person who stopped to help. Was threatening the women's lives.

The Good Guy shows up and tells the Bad Guy to back off. The Good Guy fires a warning shot which is the ONLY thing I will fault him on. The Bad Guy then approaches the Good Guy "aggressively". Good Guy shoots Bad Guy.

The Bad Guy had several chances to stop and live. If you are dumb enough to advance "aggressively" while a pistol is pointed at you then you should expect to end up DEAD.

The fact that you can't read the article and understand which state it takes place in directly relates to your tenuous grasp of reality.

[polykarp]

Thanks for the post, especially after my recent encounter with a couple of road ragers.

I'm against warning shots unless you are a farmer shotting bird-shot to scare off Tom and Huck from stealing your watermelons.

Again, I'm really torn about carrying or not (personally that is).

[Zebra3]

Originally Posted by Cannibul

The fact that you can't read the article and understand which state it takes place in directly relates to your tenuous grasp of reality.

I find it fascinating that several members here would rather insult others who have dissenting opinions, rather than engage in constructive arguments. By the way, if you had bothered to check prior to posting your "my way or the highway" rant, you would have noticed I corrected my initial post on the location. The spirit of my original post stands, as PA is right next to NY, with many of the same societal characteristics, many of them very dissimilar from those in the south or west.

Somebody coming at me armed with only fists would not provoke me to pull my pistol. I have 2 legs and, like law enforcement officers are taught, would engage them to put me in a position to protect myself and the attacker, not just stand there and wait for some goofball to lunge at me. I would do anything to prevent just that. Shooting any human being must remain a last resort.

Verbally threatening is not presenting deadly force. Hitting someone is assault, not something any well-trained law enforcement officer would consider "deadly force to meet with deadly force." As such, and if borne out, then this will be justified as unreasonable force.

Generally a person may use reasonable force when it appears reasonably necessary to prevent an impending injury. A person using force in self-defense should use only so much force as is required to repel the attack. Nondeadly force can be used to repel either a nondeadly attack or a deadly attack. Deadly force may be used to fend off an attacker who is using deadly force but may not be used to repel an attacker who is not using deadly force. In some cases, before using force that is likely to cause death or serious bodily harm to the aggressor, a person who is under attack should attempt to retreat or escape, but only if an exit is reasonably possible.
The force used in self-defense may be sufficient for protection from apparent harm (not just an empty verbal threat) or to halt any danger from attack, but cannot be an excuse to continue the attack or use excessive force. Examples: an unarmed man punches Allen Alibi, who hits the attacker with a baseball bat. That is legitimate self-defense, but Alibi cannot chase after the attacker and shoot him or beat him senseless.
- Self-Defense legal definition of Self-Defense. Self-Defense synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

[TMP]

I would call him an upstanding citizen. The warning shot was out of line but the rest of his actions probably saved the woman's life.

[rufusdog]

I agree 100% with the retired officer and that Mr Need got exactly what he had coming.

[stbarsh]

Originally Posted by Zebra3

The spirit of my original post stands, as PA is right next to NY, with many of the same societal characteristics, many of them very dissimilar from those in the south or west.

There's a world of difference between NY and PA. While there are some similarities between the two (and their people), PA has far more liberal gun rules, whereas NY aspires to be California-East or England-West.

[Frogman77]

how do you determine what deadly force is? A trained fighter's two fists and two legs can be just as deadly as a using a baseball bat or crowbar. Even more so, you add the possibility of drugs into the picture and you've got yourself some serious consideration as to you would consider deadly weapons. At the time who knows what else is influencing an attacker...