Not the best decision...

[eyesopened]

Originally Posted by foo.c

As said above, if the driver really was near to running someone over, deadly force would be authorized.

Maybe by you...

Sounds like this guy got in way over his head. There are other ways to detain a person without using a firearm. But none of us were there so all we can do is make up theories...

[foo.c]

Originally Posted by eyesopened

Maybe by you...

Sounds like this guy got in way over his head. There are other ways to detain a person without using a firearm. But none of us were there so all we can do is make up theories...

No, that is the law in my state.

"A person is justified in using deadly force against an attacker to protect another person if he would be justified to use it to protect himself against an unlawful attack and he reasonably believes his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the other person from serious injury or death."

[Philadelphia]

Originally Posted by Bree

Of course alcohol was a factor. . . . and that is what alcohol does... it impairs judgement. ONE drink begins the process of impairment.

In your opinion. As you know, that's not the law (at least not everywhere).

People who carry guns should never mix their guns with alcohol or any other consciousness altering substance.

I have to strongly disagree with this as I often carry a gun to the bar or restaraunt so that I have it when I leave later on for the walk home. I live in a city with it's fair share of violent crime and violent people. Of course I don't go out and get a snootful, but a beer or two doesn't turn me into an idiot. You might take note of the fact that in many departments, when police run undercover operations, they are permitted to drink alcoholic beverages as part of their cover.

Hard and fast, one size fits all rules are generally bad.

[Alaskapopo]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia

He had three beers in about three and a half hours. Liquor was hardly a factor.

.

NO he said he had three bears three hours. DUI drivers tell me crap like that all the time before they blow .2 on the Data Master. Guns and alcohol don't mix and this incident just makes it more clear as to why.
Pat

[Alaskapopo]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia

In your opinion. As you know, that's not the law (at least not everywhere).



I have to strongly disagree with this as I often carry a gun to the bar or restaraunt so that I have it when I leave later on for the walk home. I live in a city with it's fair share of violent crime and violent people. Of course I don't go out and get a snootful, but a beer or two doesn't turn me into an idiot. You might take note of the fact that in many departments, when police run undercover operations, they are permitted to drink alcoholic beverages as part of their cover.

Hard and fast, one size fits all rules are generally bad.

You should not drink and carry period. Laws vary but if you make it to the point you should not drive you should also not carry a gun. In my state you can not carry into a bar with a gun. You can into a resturaunt that serves alcohol so long as you do not drink. So basically no drinking and carrying.
Pat

[Alaskapopo]

Originally Posted by foo.c

As said above, if the driver really was near to running someone over, deadly force would be authorized.

Yes that is true but do you really trust a drunk retard to make that lethal force decision. I don't and hence that is why the laws are the way they are.
Pat

[Alaskapopo]

[quote=Philadelphia;1191539



, when police run undercover operations, they are permitted to drink alcoholic beverages as part of their cover.
. [/quote]
I have a little knowledge on this subject as I worked UC for 3 years. You are allowed to drink but its extremely controlled. If you get caught with a BAC higher than .04 in my old unit that was grounds for suspension. The only reason alcohol consumption was permitted as to not blow the cover. It was to be avoided when not absolutely necessary to maintain your cover.
Pat

[Bree]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia

In your opinion. As you know, that's not the law (at least not everywhere).



I have to strongly disagree with this as I often carry a gun to the bar or restaraunt so that I have it when I leave later on for the walk home. I live in a city with it's fair share of violent crime and violent people. Of course I don't go out and get a snootful, but a beer or two doesn't turn me into an idiot. You might take note of the fact that in many departments, when police run undercover operations, they are permitted to drink alcoholic beverages as part of their cover.

Hard and fast, one size fits all rules are generally bad.

When it comes to drugs and alcohol, I disagree... one size does fit all... ZERO TOLERANCE.

I haven't surveyed the laws to see what the maximum BAC's are by state if any. I know that Michigan has a .02 BAC for CCW. I know that Minnesota had a bill that would have voided a CCW if there was ANY detactable BAC. I don't think it passed but it was on the table. I would have supported that bill if I had been a Minnesotan.

Mind you, I am not talking about WHERE you carry. I live in NY where I can carry in a bar. They prefer that we don't but it is not illegal. Of course they can revoke our licenses at will so it is a good idea not to cross the licensing officers or judges.

I am only talking about actually drinking (or taking controlled substances) and carrying. It this respect, I think any consumption at all should cause you to leave your gun at home. With our rights under assault one of the best ways to keep our rights is to eliminate unforced errors... prevent stupid stuff from causing unnecessary incidents.... and drinking and carrying is an invitation to stupid stuff.

The technical aspect relates to the effect of alcohol on processing multiple inputs simultaneously. Self defense with a handgun requires coordination of fine mental determinations about the nature and degree of threat, danger to innocent bystanders, projected path of your projectile, methods of defense available etc. with the physical motor skills necessary to retrieve your gun from concealment, draw and mount the weapon, aim and fire it.

There is a lot going on at one time. It is just like riding a motorcycle. Multiple inputs combined with multiple judgements and physical actions. Research shows that even a single drink interferes with the proper operation of this processing. With life at stake, there is no room for unnecessary impairment. For that reason, I believe in the zero tolerance policy for all.

[fastboy]

Drawing his gun, under the influence of alcohol, on somebody with the threat of deadly force because he "thought" the vehicle had struck someone?? Would anyone of us want to be at the receiving end of this guy's barrel? This guy should lose his CCW and go to jail for his action.

[AZXD40]

Originally Posted by nickb

The funny part is, had the guy in the car been left alone by all the bystanders and then run over folks, a lot of people would be whining about the fact that no one had the guts to try and stop him.

Oh so True..

While I don't condone drinking and carrying, I don't think there are enough facts on the table to judge any of this. I can certainly see both sides of the story and god knows the media is always going to offer the non-bias truth..