Q's: Defensive caliber, defensive tactics, noise

[mongoose33]

JCabin wrote in another thread:

"I originally wanted the .45 caliber, but after extensive research, i came to the conclusion that 9mm is better for my current economic status. College student/part time job, 9mm much much much more affordable than 45. Also on the issue of caliber effectiveness, you get 16 rounds of hollow point in the 9mm service, with practice and range time you'll be fine."

I bought my first XD about a month ago, a Service 9mm. In the end, I bought the Service 9mm because of cost of shooting and the fact I'd tried a demo and was just terrific with it (for a man who'd never shot a semi-automatic ever). JCabin's reasoning above is similar to mine (though for ammo cost reasons I never seriously considered the .45).

But I really wondered about stopping power. I decided that if I couldn't afford to practice regularly the stopping power of a larger caliber might be moot. So I thought it might be better to focus on good hits, multiple hits, than innate stopping power.

A friend of mine is a LEO, and we were at the range a couple days ago (he's teaching me basics). In rapid fire (9mm, remember), at relatively close range, I can put 5 rounds on target in a hurry, which would seem to have as much value as one shot with a larger caliber.

My friend said that even if the target had a vest, 5 such shots into the vest would put him down, if it didn't incapacitate him, and would allow me a bit of time to determine next move (probably a second, which is a lot of time).

Q: What's more effective for stopping power, several 9mm JHP rounds into center mass, or one .45 round? And if I can deliver several such rounds in a couple seconds, isn't that enough?

Q2: What would be the effect of several 9mm rounds into a vest?

Q3: Like JCabin above, I was impressed by the 16-round clip. It seemed to me that the ability to empty that clip toward a BG would be a valuable element in HD. Wrong? Naive?

Q4: I've always used ear protection, but I'm sure the sound of my XD going off indoors would be deafening. How distracting would that noise likely be to me as a shooter? Would it have a distracting effect on me, on a BG, would it make it more difficult to make followup shots accurately (which would negate the multiple-rounds-in-a-hurry argument above)?

Finally, if anyone can point me to links that discuss these things, I'd appreciate it (I've done a lot of googling, but no particular luck).

M.

[propellerhead]

Originally Posted by mongoose33

So I thought it might be better to focus on good hits, multiple hits, than innate stopping power.

It's not one or the other. You need both.

[cadconversions]

All I can say about the noise is that when I hunt deer I have no hearing protection in so I can hear the deer approach. Yes, I know there is really expensive options on the market but I never had the money to buy any at that time, but when I broke the shot two things always happened. I never heard the gun fire any louder than a small pop and I never felt the recoil. But I always had a huge smile on my face!

[mongoose33]

Originally Posted by propellerhead

It's not one or the other. You need both.

I didn't say it as well as I could. I meant good hits *and* multiple hits.

[The Tengu]

Can I ask why you are requesting information regarding the defeat of body armor?

Also, they are magazines not clips.

[tomfoolery]

as far as picking stopping power or capacity...thats a tough choice. I carry a 1911 with 9 rounds of .45acp, i know for a fact (lots of practice, uspsa, idpa, etc) that i can place all 9 of those shots where i want them in a really good time. For me it wasn't really a tough choice....im good with a .45, it has stopping power, i reload .45 to practice with.

I know people that carry a 9mm...i did for a few months last year and felt comfortable with its protection value.



In theory though you dont want to place all 5 shots from any caliber in the same grouping. Look at it like the pond ripple effect. If you throw a rock into a pond the water ripples....if you throw a second rock into the same place the water doesnt really ripple more than it already was. If you think of this as the wound channel it makes more sense. If you shoot a BG center mass it creates a wound channel, if you follow up with a another shot in the same spot your not doing much more damage. You want 2 or 3 well placed shots in the torso (i like to think of is as a triangle).


Use this phrase and youl see what i mean, "nipple, nipple, neck". Or in that general area, (i know aiming for the neck may lead to a miss on an-unexperienced shooter).

[Ed Ely]

But I really wondered about stopping power. I decided that if I couldn't afford to practice regularly the stopping power of a larger caliber might be moot. So I thought it might be better to focus on good hits, multiple hits, than innate stopping power.

Stopping power is when the threat
is no longer a threat, regardless of
how many rounds expended, nor the
caliber.

Ed

[Joeywhat]

Remember that a single, well placed 9mm is more deadly and better at incapacitating then a couple .45's to the arm or leg.

[yocan]

I'd rather put 3 9mms on target than 2 .45s but I'm a .357 sig man myself. That being said I'm buying a 9mm for a carry gun due to ammo costs as well. Would it go through my body armor? NO only a 10mm submachine gun would. However I have USMC body armor in my house The lady at the church that shot the guy with two 9mms , 1 ak47, 1000 rounds in magazine, and body armor didn't "kill" him, but put him down and out and thats all that matters. 3 rounds center mass and the fourth in his head. Why are you worrying about body armor? If SWAT comes in, its not going through, they wear plates, so the .45 isn't either. If a gangbanger comes through it will be mil surp flaks or the Level 2 crap you can buy at a gun show, some will go through, some won't. If your really worried about it, 3rd, 6th round have FMJ, those will go through the gangbangers stuff.

[jcabin]

It's really personal preference. Like we both said, we bought the 9mm because its a hell of alot cheaper to shoot than a 45, and you get the increased capacity. i mean 9$ for 50 rounds 9mm, or 25$ for 50 rounds 45acp? pretty simple choice. Either way, practice practice practice, and you will be fine. You must practice double tapping, followed by head shots. The technique most commonly used by many special force units around the world, many of whom carr 9mm religiously.

On the issue of bullet proof vests, from what i've been told. 9mm fmj will tear up a bulletproof vest before you finish a magazine, unlike a 45 who will probably not break the vest.