Open Carrier Arrested in Portland, Maine

[DIRTY HARRY]

man that would of never happend in vermont or new hampshire " live free or die" hope it all works out for you

[street cruiser]

That guy has one hell of a case against the officers and PD as long there is not any wrinkles in the story. Those officers can be held criminally and civilly liable under Federal Codes. Man I need to go to law school.

[Bree]

Originally Posted by gsh341

Here is the short list of what the knives were according to the person involved from the Glock Talk forum.

Arrested - Glock Talk



Apparently the folding box cutter is similar to this one.

Folding utility knife

None of these knives has any of the features banned by the state of Maine.

As far as I can tell it is a over-reaction by both the person that reported the incident and the police. The whole incident should have been handled more like this. YouTube - Open carrying in New Hampshire

Maine Revised Statutes

Title 17-A: MAINE CRIMINAL CODE
Part 2: SUBSTANTIVE OFFENSES
Chapter 43: WEAPONS


§1055. Trafficking in dangerous knives

1. A person is guilty of trafficking in dangerous knives, if providing he has no right to do so, he knowingly manufactures or causes to be manufactured, or knowingly possesses, displays, offers, sells, lends, gives away or purchases any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife, or any knife having a blade which opens or falls or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward or centrifugal thrust or movement.


2. Trafficking in dangerous knives is a Class D crime.

I think the Leek has a thumbstud where you give it a little push to get it started and flick your wrist and the blade pops open. If so, the guy is toast as they will probably call that an illegal knife under the law above. The box cutter may also flip open with a wrist flick. That would make that one illegal too. If he had three knives, the three charges may have all been knife charges and there may in fact be no firearms charges involved at all.

[gsh341]

Once again, they had no reason to stop him as he was breaking no laws and was not acting in a threatening manner. The police broke the law by using force to detain a person who was not breaking the law.

Since the stop and the search was illegal, the knives, however illegal they may or may not be, should be inadmissible in court.

And since the Leek requires manual force on the blade to open the blade and is designed to require that force, it should not meet the definitions of an illegal knife in the state of Maine. He also likely bought the knife in Maine so it should not be illegal as the store selling it would have looked into the legality of their products before the sale.

[yocan]

Originally Posted by gsh341

He also likely bought the knife in Maine so it should not be illegal as the store selling it would have looked into the legality of their products before the sale.

I agree with all but that, stores sell illegal stuff all the time. Its carrying it thats illegal, concealing a steak knife in most states is illegal.

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by yocan

I agree with all but that, stores sell illegal stuff all the time. Its carrying it thats illegal, concealing a steak knife in most states is illegal.

From the Maine statute shown above.

1. A person is guilty of trafficking in dangerous knives, if providing he has no right to do so, he knowingly manufactures or causes to be manufactured, or knowingly possesses, displays, offers, sells, lends, gives away or purchases any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife, or any knife having a blade which opens or falls or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward or centrifugal thrust or movement.

If the person didn't know the knife was illegal, there is no crime. The store has the responsibility to know which knives are and are not illegal.

Try this for an example. If you go into a sporting goods store in your state such as Cabela's or Bass Pro's and buy an item, you would naturally assume that any item being sold in that store conforms with state law. You would assume this because the store's lawyers would have (or should have) checked the laws to protect their store from breaking the law by knowingly selling an illegal item. As this is a reasonable assumption, why would any prosecutor or jury determine that the knife you bought in the state of Maine was known to be illegal by the purchaser?

If the knife was purchased over the internet, the responsibility to determine the legality of the knife in question is up to the purchaser.

In this particular case, to have broken the law you have to KNOW that the knife is illegal.

[Bree]

Seems to me that following the link brought you guys to the info that a complaint was called in on the guy by cell phone. The search was motivated by a citizen complaint. It was therefore, very likely to be completely legal since the officers were warned of an armed and possibly dangerous man based on the citizen's complaint. And fearing for their own as well as the citizen's safety they did a stop and frisk.

And again it doesn't look like he got hit with a gun charge but three knife charges. I guess the message is that if you carry openly, you better be squeaky clean in ALL ways.

[Bree]

Originally Posted by gsh341

From the Maine statute shown above.



If the person didn't know the knife was illegal, there is no crime. The store has the responsibility to know which knives are and are not illegal.

Try this for an example. If you go into a sporting goods store in your state such as Cabela's or Bass Pro's and buy an item, you would naturally assume that any item being sold in that store conforms with state law. You would assume this because the store's lawyers would have (or should have) checked the laws to protect their store from breaking the law by knowingly selling an illegal item. As this is a reasonable assumption, why would any prosecutor or jury determine that the knife you bought in the state of Maine was known to be illegal by the purchaser?

If the knife was purchased over the internet, the responsibility to determine the legality of the knife in question is up to the purchaser.

In this particular case, to have broken the law you have to KNOW that the knife is illegal.

LOL! Not knowing that the knife is illegal won't get him off the hook! He simply needs to know that he possesses it. If someone slipped it into his pocket there might be a case that he is not responsible. But if he put the knife in his pocket he is 100% responsible for knowing that it is legal to carry. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by Bree

LOL! Not knowing that the knife is illegal won't get him off the hook! He simply needs to know that he possesses it. If someone slipped it into his pocket there might be a case that he is not responsible. But if he put the knife in his pocket he is 100% responsible for knowing that it is legal to carry. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.

Read the law again.

Normally you would be correct, but the wording of the law in this instance makes it a crime to KNOWINGLY possess or sell a knife that is illegal. The wording of the law does not explicitly state that knives that can be opened with one hand are illegal and if he bought it from a store inside Maine, the store would be equally guilty under the same law.

How many stores (especially stores that sell knives) do you know of that knowingly sell illegal products to their customers?

Since the word "knowingly" is a primary word in this law it is NOT a crime to posses a knife that you did not know is illegal. In this case if the police cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person knew the knife was illegal, they can only confiscate the illegal item, not convict for possession.

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by Bree

Seems to me that following the link brought you guys to the info that a complaint was called in on the guy by cell phone. The search was motivated by a citizen complaint. It was therefore, very likely to be completely legal since the officers were warned of an armed and possibly dangerous man based on the citizen's complaint. And fearing for their own as well as the citizen's safety they did a stop and frisk.

And again it doesn't look like he got hit with a gun charge but three knife charges. I guess the message is that if you carry openly, you better be squeaky clean in ALL ways.

So if I call the police and say that you have a gun and you look scary to me, (even though I have not interacted with you at all) the cops (7-10 of them in this case) have a valid reason to stop, detain and frisk you?

That is an infringement of your rights under the 4th Amendment and the Maine Constitution.