Open Carrier Arrested in Portland, Maine

[The Tengu]

Originally Posted by devildog12210

You can open carry in TN. You get a TN Handgun Carry Permit. Not a concealed carry. You have the option to open carry or carry concealed, but you must have the permit to do either.

Oh, you are right. I meant the "traditional" open carry where you do not have to have a license.

[gsh341]

Some basic facts.

1. The person in question broke no laws by open carrying, but the police did violate Article 1, Section 16 of the Maine Constitution.

Constitution OF Maine

2. The police broke the law by violating Title 17 Chapter 93-C: Interference with Constitutional and Civil Rights.

Title 17, §2931: Prohibition

3. The state of Maine has preemption on all gun laws and thus local ordinances are void.

Title 25, §2011: State preemption

4. Personal feelings or fear are not cause for unlawful arrest and detainment.

Basically, if this goes to court, I fully expect the case to be dismissed. If it is not, the city will probably end up paying all the court costs incurred by the defendant. After the case is dismissed I might even expect the city to be sued for the violation of this man's civil liberties.

Also, if you are not a fan of open carry, that is your right. But this person was exercising his rights and we should all be more supportive of him for that fact alone.

A right that is not exercised is a right that has been lost.

[Bree]

Originally Posted by gsh341

Some basic facts.

1. The person in question broke no laws by open carrying, but the police did violate Article 1, Section 16 of the Maine Constitution.

Maybe he didn't... maybe he did. He is NOT charged with open carrying of a firearm. He is facing three CONCEALED weapons charges which by my reading of the Maine laws are Class D crimes with imprisonment terms of 1-3 years. If the court imposed them consecutively that is as much as 9 years. That is quite unlikely but it is possible.

The real question is why does he say that he was open carrying when they charged him with concealed carry of the firearm as well as the knives? I tend to think his OC claim is supported since they turned around to come adter him while in the midst of a lights-on mission. Of course their lights may have been on as they were looking specifically for him.

In any case, if they saw the gun, then it wasn't concealed and the concealed charge #1 fails. But that would not get him off the hook for concealed charges #2 and #3.

I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened and I suspect that nobody else here does. So we have to wait and see what actually happens.

[jeepinbanditrider]

Unless the type of knife he had on him (folding blade I assume) isn't illegal under their concealed weapons laws. I'm not in Maine so I have no idea what their laws are on the subject as far as knives go.

I know here folding blade knives with blades under a certain length aren't illegal to carry concealed.

[tenring]

Except any lawyer worth his salt would have the knives quashed as fruit of a unlawful search.

Open Carry of a handgun has been clearly found to be not evidence of wrongdoing by previous case precedent. They would not have found the knives without assuming/claiming that his original complaining act was illegal when it wasn't. They had no right to find out he was concealing knives, legally or illegally.

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by Bree

Maybe he didn't... maybe he did. He is NOT charged with open carrying of a firearm. He is facing three CONCEALED weapons charges which by my reading of the Maine laws are Class D crimes with imprisonment terms of 1-3 years. If the court imposed them consecutively that is as much as 9 years. That is quite unlikely but it is possible.

Any evidence found as the result of an illegal search is inadmissible in court. Since openly carrying a firearm is not illegal, there was no reason for the police to search him. If they had not searched him they would not have found the knives. Any lawyer worth his salt will have those charges thrown out in the first day.

Also Maine law has no prohibition against ordinary knives. They do prohibit switchblades and gravity knives.

Title 17-A, §1055: Trafficking in dangerous knives

Title 25, §2001: Threatening display of or carrying a concealed weapon

Originally Posted by Bree

The real question is why does he say that he was open carrying when they charged him with concealed carry of the firearm as well as the knives? I tend to think his OC claim is supported since they turned around to come after him while in the midst of a lights-on mission. Of course their lights may have been on as they were looking specifically for him.

If he was carrying a concealed weapon, how would the person who reported him, and the police, have seen the gun so clearly?

This is from the blog of Kelly Green. She is the one of the witnesses to the incident. Her blog has been closed since the incident, but this was captured from it before it was closed.

http://kellygreen514.livejournal.com/

Why did that seem like a good idea? In continuing with my theme of stupid yet dangerous situations this week... Kim, Carrie & I were out walking Back Bay last night when we got passed by this kind of creepy looking guy. We ignored him and kept talking until we realized he was carrying a gun in a hoslter on his hip. Then we slowed the hell down and let him get waaaaaaay in front of us. There were two women walking their dog behind us and who had a cell phone & called the police.

This was close to the end of the section near 295. By the time we got over to near Payson Park and fields behind Cheverus the road had been shutdown and there were 5 cop cars about 7-10 cops and the guy was lying face down on the ground. He was eventually arrested and no one was hurt thank goodness.

In the news this morning they also said in addition to the gun he also had several knives on him as well. What the heck the man was thinking I have no idea....obviously nothing good.

So far this week I have been lucky enough to miss getting severely burned by a suddenly decompressing pressure cooker and passed by a moron with a gun. I believe everything comes in threes so I might just shut myself away because I really don't want to know what the third dangerous situation is going to be.

Originally Posted by Bree

In any case, if they saw the gun, then it wasn't concealed and the concealed charge #1 fails. But that would not get him off the hook for concealed charges #2 and #3.

See the first point.

Originally Posted by Bree

I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened and I suspect that nobody else here does. So we have to wait and see what actually happens.

We weren't there, But Kelly Green was. Until what I posted from her blog is proven to be inaccurate or false, I'll take it as the best possible evidence and give it the benefit of a doubt. The first post about this was on Glock Talk here. Arrested - Page 4 - Glock Talk

[gsx1138]

I think it's a training issue. When it gets hot it's much easier to carry on your hip. My state allows OC but there are still plenty of cops who like to power trip. The problem isn't the OC it's the police who think only they should have guns and the citizens who are scared of their own shadow.

I prefer to CC but I like having the option of OC.

[vtachrn]

Just woundering if this case could be conisered false arrest? If so, this enters into a whole new arena which could get ugly law suit wise....

[Bree]

Citizens call in saying that a man is threatening them with a gun. Police rush to the scene, find a man with a gun, and take him down. They find other weapons and charge him. The citizens may be mistaken but that is all the police need. Add the word 'threaten' to the reports by the civvies and the searches are completely legal. Maine does not allow threatening display.

Not sure that is what happened but from the blog report that sounds like a good bet to me. It's all subjective and the sheeple get all hysterical there is no telling what they will say to the police.

I wouldn't feel as confident as you guys. He has a fight ahead. And Maine doesn't allow knives that will open by centrifugal force or a wrist flip like a CRKT. If he had one of those, he has problems.

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by Bree

Citizens call in saying that a man is threatening them with a gun. Police rush to the scene, find a man with a gun, and take him down. They find other weapons and charge him. The citizens may be mistaken but that is all the police need. Add the word 'threaten' to the reports by the civvies and the searches are completely legal. Maine does not allow threatening display.

Not sure that is what happened but from the blog report that sounds like a good bet to me. It's all subjective and the sheeple get all hysterical there is no telling what they will say to the police.

I wouldn't feel as confident as you guys. He has a fight ahead. And Maine doesn't allow knives that will open by centrifugal force or a wrist flip like a CRKT. If he had one of those, he has problems.

Here is the short list of what the knives were according to the person involved from the Glock Talk forum.

Arrested - Glock Talk

Originally Posted by boyscout399

Kershaw Leek, Folding boxcutter, cheap swiss army knock off (for the screwdriver)

Apparently the folding box cutter is similar to this one.

Folding utility knife

None of these knives has any of the features banned by the state of Maine.

As far as I can tell it is a over-reaction by both the person that reported the incident and the police. The whole incident should have been handled more like this. YouTube - Open carrying in New Hampshire