The future of diesel fuel? - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

Lazarus · 03-12-2008, 06:52 PM

I was at a gas station in Newark, NJ today and noticed diesel was $4 a gallon. My wife wants a MB diesel truck for her next ride. Whats the future looking like for diesel fuel? I remember when it was the same as Super or even cheaper so is the reason for the increase the same as regular gas?

-CH- · 03-12-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus

I was at a gas station in Newark, NJ today and noticed diesel was $4 a gallon. My wife wants a MB diesel truck for her next ride. Whats the future looking like for diesel fuel? I remember when it was the same as Super or even cheaper so is the reason for the increase the same as regular gas?

it used to be cheaper than regular(it is after all basically a 'bottom of the barrel' product that requires a LOT less processing than gas) - yes, the increase is for about the same reason as i understand it. Ive also been told that a diesel processing plant closed and the supply cant keep up with the demand, personally i dont really believe that version.
diesel vehicles (the the MB your wife wants) do however tend to get better MPG and hold their value better in addition to the added power over gas. Just take a look at the diesel/petrol vehicle sales by percentage in Europe where the infrastructure has been in place longer...its still a great option IMHO. We need to get some more bio-d plants up and running, and the cost will come back down in addition to decreasing foreign dependence.

Sirius1963 · 03-12-2008, 07:00 PM

I moved into a house last summer that uses heating oil (diesel), my first 500 gallon fillup really woke me up

It was "cheap" back then at only $1500, now it would be closer to $2000.

I'm getting a natural gas furnace next week. Screw diesel, I'm done with it!

And (at least in WA.) don't even think about buying home heating oil for use in your car here, it's the same price, THEN they add sales tax on top! It's cheaper to get it at the gas station and fill up the home tanks.

Lazarus · 03-12-2008, 07:01 PM

Thanks CH. Yea I'm thinking that the hihger mpg will offset the increased price so that hopefully it would be better. Watching something on Motortrend, they said something is coming out that would be benefit for diesel powered vehicles but I forget what they said it was. Maybe some new type of diesel fuel.

chrisxd45t · 03-12-2008, 07:02 PM

Bio-diesel man. Brew your own, there're kits and chemicals available, works in all diesels too.
Look it up. It's pretty interesting learning how you can make your own, not that I've actually done it.
Little lye, methanol...

Lots of companies are starting to use it in their fleet vehicles.
Makes more power and is cleaner and easier on the motor, which allows for a longer life out of the motor.
It used to be more expensive than petroleum diesel, but now they're evening out.

-CH- · 03-12-2008, 07:02 PM

not to mention heating oil isnt the same as #2, or even #1 diesel

Lazarus · 03-12-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius1963

I moved into a house last summer that uses heating oil (diesel), my first 500 gallon fillup really woke me up

It was "cheap" back then at only $1500, now it would be closer to $2000.

I'm getting a natural gas furnace next week. Screw diesel, I'm done with it!

And (at least in WA.) don't even think about buying home heating oil for use in your car here, it's the same price, THEN they add sales tax on top! It's cheaper to get it at the gas station and fill up the home tanks.

My house in Baltimore use to take "oil" and my parents would pay like $100 or $150 for 100 gals of it. I dont know how much it would cost now but how long does that 500 gals last? I think we went through 200-250 gals of oil a winter.

jtkratzer · 03-12-2008, 08:56 PM

My house right now has an oil furnace with hot water radiators. I love that type of heat, but oil prices are going through the roof.

The problem I have with diesel vehicles is this:

Generally, you pay significantly more for the vehicle up front and now the fuel for them costs more as well. So, you have a larger up front investment and the fuel that yields better MPG costs more, so really, how many miles do you have to drive before you're saving?

Look at it this way...take the VW Toureg for example, 2008 model...there is a $20,000 price difference between the 4.9L V10 turbo diesel and the gas 4.2L V8...and nearly a $30,000 difference between the diesel and the 3.6L V6.

The V8 gets 12/17 mpg city/highway.
TDI - 15/20...city/highway.

So, that means you get 3 MPG better with the diesel but you have to pay more for fuel and $20,000 more for the vehicle.

Just playing with average numbers...$3.50/gal for regular gas, $4/gallon for diesel. Assume you drive 15,000 miles per year. Average.

Over 15,000 miles, assuming you get a combined MPG of 14.5 MPG on the gas vs 17.5 mpg on the diesel...that means you save $192.12 on fuel over the course of 15,000 miles. At that rate, without factoring in interest on the $20,000 difference or the higher insurance premiums for the more valuable vehicle, it will take 104 years or 1,560,000 miles on that vehicle until you break even. Seems pretty clear to me.

So, in the end, not all vehicles are going to have that big of a price difference between gas and diesel, but you see where it's going. If you're considering a sedan that gets maybe 25-35 city/highway on gas vs. 50+ mpg on diesel, then the numbers aren't so skewed, but when my wife and I were considering getting a used diesel Jetta, the higher costs of fuel, insurance, and up front cost of the vehicle didn't add up. It would take a long time to realize the savings of the fuels, and that's based on today's numbers without diesel continuing to rise.

**jnclement** · 03-12-2008, 10:35 PM

I thought part of the diesel price increase was due to additional refining to make it lower in sulfur. Maybe not. I sure want one, so I can learn to make bio-diesel though. And get a "screw ethanol!" bumper sticker.

If the hot new natural gas play in Pennsylvania pans out, natural gas will get cheap.

UncleBuck · 03-12-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus

I was at a gas station in Newark, NJ today and noticed diesel was $4 a gallon. My wife wants a MB diesel truck for her next ride. Whats the future looking like for diesel fuel? I remember when it was the same as Super or even cheaper so is the reason for the increase the same as regular gas?

I believe that diesel fuel now needs to be further refined to meet polution standards which raises the price. Also, a higher volume of regular gasoline is used with more stations keeping prices more competitive.

03-12-2008, 07:00 PM	#3
Sirius1963 XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pacific NorthWET (Seattle) Posts: 1,155	I moved into a house last summer that uses heating oil (diesel), my first 500 gallon fillup really woke me up It was "cheap" back then at only $1500, now it would be closer to $2000. I'm getting a natural gas furnace next week. Screw diesel, I'm done with it! And (at least in WA.) don't even think about buying home heating oil for use in your car here, it's the same price, THEN they add sales tax on top! It's cheaper to get it at the gas station and fill up the home tanks. __________________ You don’t win anything in a gunfight, you just get to keep what you have. The loudest sound in the world is a “click” when you need a “bang.” The second loudest sound in the world is a “bang” when you were expecting a “click.”

03-12-2008, 07:01 PM	#4
Lazarus XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 5,027	Thanks CH. Yea I'm thinking that the hihger mpg will offset the increased price so that hopefully it would be better. Watching something on Motortrend, they said something is coming out that would be benefit for diesel powered vehicles but I forget what they said it was. Maybe some new type of diesel fuel. __________________ You never know what you'll miss until its gone.

03-12-2008, 07:02 PM	#5
chrisxd45t XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Monterey/San Jose California Posts: 1,227	Bio-diesel man. Brew your own, there're kits and chemicals available, works in all diesels too. Look it up. It's pretty interesting learning how you can make your own, not that I've actually done it. Little lye, methanol... Lots of companies are starting to use it in their fleet vehicles. Makes more power and is cleaner and easier on the motor, which allows for a longer life out of the motor. It used to be more expensive than petroleum diesel, but now they're evening out. __________________ LEGALIZE FREEDOM Last edited by chrisxd45t; 03-12-2008 at 07:08 PM.

03-12-2008, 07:02 PM	#6
-CH- XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: TX Posts: 242	not to mention heating oil isnt the same as #2, or even #1 diesel __________________ prosterno totus sic quo hic malum, tot sic quo hictela enim niteo Ketchup is for winners Ted! - Dr. Bob Kelso Qui desiderat pacem, bellum praeparat; nemo provocare ne offendre audet quem intelliget superiorem esse pungaturem - Vegetius "Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"...... Enzo Ferrari Ipsa scientia potestas est The only good cat is Schrödinger's cat

03-12-2008, 08:56 PM	#8
jtkratzer XDTalk 15K Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lancaster Co., PA Posts: 17,542	My house right now has an oil furnace with hot water radiators. I love that type of heat, but oil prices are going through the roof. The problem I have with diesel vehicles is this: Generally, you pay significantly more for the vehicle up front and now the fuel for them costs more as well. So, you have a larger up front investment and the fuel that yields better MPG costs more, so really, how many miles do you have to drive before you're saving? Look at it this way...take the VW Toureg for example, 2008 model...there is a $20,000 price difference between the 4.9L V10 turbo diesel and the gas 4.2L V8...and nearly a $30,000 difference between the diesel and the 3.6L V6. The V8 gets 12/17 mpg city/highway. TDI - 15/20...city/highway. So, that means you get 3 MPG better with the diesel but you have to pay more for fuel and $20,000 more for the vehicle. Just playing with average numbers...$3.50/gal for regular gas, $4/gallon for diesel. Assume you drive 15,000 miles per year. Average. Over 15,000 miles, assuming you get a combined MPG of 14.5 MPG on the gas vs 17.5 mpg on the diesel...that means you save $192.12 on fuel over the course of 15,000 miles. At that rate, without factoring in interest on the $20,000 difference or the higher insurance premiums for the more valuable vehicle, it will take 104 years or 1,560,000 miles on that vehicle until you break even. Seems pretty clear to me. So, in the end, not all vehicles are going to have that big of a price difference between gas and diesel, but you see where it's going. If you're considering a sedan that gets maybe 25-35 city/highway on gas vs. 50+ mpg on diesel, then the numbers aren't so skewed, but when my wife and I were considering getting a used diesel Jetta, the higher costs of fuel, insurance, and up front cost of the vehicle didn't add up. It would take a long time to realize the savings of the fuels, and that's based on today's numbers without diesel continuing to rise. __________________ "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson The Gun Lounge Pennyslvania Firearms Owners Association Hockey Forum

03-12-2008, 06:52 PM	#1
Lazarus XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 5,027	The future of diesel fuel? I was at a gas station in Newark, NJ today and noticed diesel was $4 a gallon. My wife wants a MB diesel truck for her next ride. Whats the future looking like for diesel fuel? I remember when it was the same as Super or even cheaper so is the reason for the increase the same as regular gas? __________________ You never know what you'll miss until its gone.

03-12-2008, 10:35 PM	#9
jnclement XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Texas Posts: 2,599	I thought part of the diesel price increase was due to additional refining to make it lower in sulfur. Maybe not. I sure want one, so I can learn to make bio-diesel though. And get a "screw ethanol!" bumper sticker. If the hot new natural gas play in Pennsylvania pans out, natural gas will get cheap. __________________ Contrary to what sells magazines, not all of us are, or want to be SpecOps, SEAL, Recon, Delta, CQB, Ninja, firearm-knife-tactical-death-touch instructors.

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