The future of diesel fuel?

[ChrisChris]

Diesel engines are by design 30% more efficient that gasoline engines.

Don't ask me why diesel fuel is so high right now, it was cheaper this past summer than regular unleaded but now it is close to $4 per gallon.

I am a big fan of diesel engines. They consume less fuel and can make loads of torque. Plus, their reliability is top notch. My old 1981 VW Pickup gave me 41 mpg last week when I filled up, and that is with city driving.

What does the future hold? Recently we as a nation went to ultra low sulfur diesel fuel which contains much less sulfur than the old low sulfur fuel. The new fuel doesn't run quite as well in older vehicles as there are issues with lubricating the mechanical fuel pumps.

Right now, nearly every auto company is working on a diesel engine for new vehicles. Subaru has an amazing engine that just came out in Europe and VW recently announced their work with a diesel hybrid.

Modern diesels are not the old smoking cars American's were used to 30 years ago. Just watch, soon they will be all over the roads, just like in Europe.

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by jnclement

I thought part of the diesel price increase was due to additional refining to make it lower in sulfur. Maybe not. I sure want one, so I can learn to make bio-diesel though. And get a "screw ethanol!" bumper sticker.

If the hot new natural gas play in Pennsylvania pans out, natural gas will get cheap.

If you get a diesel, you can get used cooking oil from restaurants, filter it yourself, and use that as fuel. Your exhaust smells like fried food, but that's better than regular diesel exhaust anyway.

Originally Posted by ChrisChris

Diesel engines are by design 30% more efficient that gasoline engines.

Don't ask me why diesel fuel is so high right now, it was cheaper this past summer than regular unleaded but now it is close to $4 per gallon.

I am a big fan of diesel engines. They consume less fuel and can make loads of torque. Plus, their reliability is top notch. My old 1981 VW Pickup gave me 41 mpg last week when I filled up, and that is with city driving.

What does the future hold? Recently we as a nation went to ultra low sulfur diesel fuel which contains much less sulfur than the old low sulfur fuel. The new fuel doesn't run quite as well in older vehicles as there are issues with lubricating the mechanical fuel pumps.

Right now, nearly every auto company is working on a diesel engine for new vehicles. Subaru has an amazing engine that just came out in Europe and VW recently announced their work with a diesel hybrid.

Modern diesels are not the old smoking cars American's were used to 30 years ago. Just watch, soon they will be all over the roads, just like in Europe.

BMW has amazing diesels. They and Audi are some of the top innovators with diesel. BMW has a 3.0 L turbo diesel engine in Germany that makes more torque than the current M-Motorsport V10 5.0L 500 hp engine in the M5 and M6.

They also have a tuned 4 cylinder diesel engine that makes 100 hp per liter of displacement. This same car, the Alpina tuned D3 will do 0-60 in under 6 seconds and still get over 40 mpg...that was over 3 years ago.

I really want to see some hybrid diesels that get over 100 mpg.

[-CH-]

jtkratzer - you dont like the smell of #2 in the morning? its a GREAT smell i sometimes miss it when i park the superduty and drive one of the cars but then i also like some smoke every now and again

I WANT that BMW diesel to come here - thats another thing i love about diesel, if you tune it (especially common rails) you can make some CRAZY power really easily.
People got excited about the tunability of the new TT3 series.... they would go NUTS with a diesel. As long as you can keep the CPs and EGTs in check youre good to go make some crazy power, the same could be said of a gasser but to a MUCH lesser extent.

ULSD does require more refining, but its still not THAT bad - it requires no more refining (and i believe still less) than gas.

ChrisChris is, unfortunately, right on the money about the lubricity ... a lot of older diesels can have some issues - but new lines, and or the addition of power service (or the like.... better yet some bio-d or veg oil) can make up the difference. HOWEVER the ULSD (along with DPFs) will/has allow[ed] us (in the US) run some more efficient and widely produced euro diesels.

[chrisxd45t]

Originally Posted by ChrisChris

Don't ask me why diesel fuel is so high right now, it was cheaper this past summer than regular unleaded but now it is close to $4 per gallon.

There are a myriad reasons, but If I had to guess as to what the main reason may be I'd say it's fuel companies price gouging us. We need diesel; everything moves on trucks and ships.

Originally Posted by ChrisChris

...soon they will be all over the roads, just like in Europe.

I personally think that sounds pretty cool chris². I still don't understand why diesel motors haven't been fully embraced and seen as being useful for more than just big work trucks.

[jtkratzer]

I've been hearing from my dealer the BMW diesels will be here this year.

I'm looking forward to seeing the 1-series with the 3.0 twin turbo straight 6...

135i...crazy power for such a small car.

[Lazarus]

Are they working on a better/cheaper diesel alternative? I wish I remember what the guy on TV said but it had something to do with Blue. Blue something or another. Basically I just want to make sure that if we do get a diesel I won't be screwed in the future. I'm not too too keen on getting a V8 simply because its only a matter of time before gas is 5-10 bucks a gallon. Also I have a deep fryer so I could make my own diesel.

[Brickboy240]

Yes, many foreign car compaines make some really nice diesel sedans, but only VW an a few Benzes are avaialble in the states. Actually, VW does not offer any diesels this year, but is bringing them back out in 09. The Benz diesels are in the mid-range E class cars and are pretty expensive.

Then, theres the BMW hydrogen car...a 7 Series! Great...excuse me, but anyone that can afford a 7 Series Bimmer does not give a rip about fuel costs! I know several 7 Series and S Class Benz owners and believe me...they are not paying any attention to the price at the pump..nor are they worried about it.

The VW diesels are usually pretty decent cars. VW's build quality has gone down somewhat from the days when they were all built in Germany, so I worry about buying one of those. I wanted to look at the newer diesel Passats to replace the wife's S40 Volvo someday, but her exact words are "I am not going from a Volvo to a Volkswagen!" so that ended that.

Volvo also makes some really nice diesels that are everywhere in Europe. Last time we were in Sweden, I saw several S60 diesels and they were so quiet, I thought they were gas engines. They get well over 30mpg, too...and look nice. I have also seen nice 5 Series Bimmers and Audi A6s with diesel engines that looked really nice and I would love to have one...but...they're not avaiable in the states.

Bad thing about diesels lately has been the fact that the extra cost of a diesel car combined with the higher fuel price, negates the savings of buying diesel sedans over a gas sedan. If diesel was the same cost as gasoline...this picture would look better but a 4 bucks a gallon...the best bet is still a fuel efficient 4 or 6 cylinder sedan.

- Brickboy240

[Gravel]

I believe that Europeans (germany for sure) get tax credits for driving a diesel instead of a gasser..

As for the thought of bio being the way to go, yeah it was great when the source was an abundant amount of waste, but it has become necessary to "produce" it now as the waste is drying up.. Bio is not the answer, that is for sure.

[Ride the Lightning]

Part of the price increase is the low sulfur requirements of recent years. There is also the matter or drastically increased demand over the last 10-15 years. You used to rarely see a light truck that was diesel powered other than the Cummins in Dodges. Now Ford and Chevy have mainstream diesel engines and people are buying them. There are probably 3-4 times as many diesel powered light trucks on the road than there were 15 years ago. With the forecast of the new wave of diesel powered cars I expect that diesel will continue to go up and gas might actually drop if the diesel cars take off like they are supposed to.

Fuel is not the only operational cost of a diesel. Maintenance costs are also considerably higher. On most diesel trucks you can expect an oil change to cost 2-3 times as much as their gas counterpart and you don't get a break on the interval either. Everything is higher to replace on a diesel, but you may get lucky and never have to replace anything. My father in law had to put a water pump on his Duramax and it was going to be $800. Chevy did an adjustment to his warranty and it was $250, but most people wouldn't complain enough to get that done.

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by Lazarus

Are they working on a better/cheaper diesel alternative? I wish I remember what the guy on TV said but it had something to do with Blue. Blue something or another. Basically I just want to make sure that if we do get a diesel I won't be screwed in the future. I'm not too too keen on getting a V8 simply because its only a matter of time before gas is 5-10 bucks a gallon. Also I have a deep fryer so I could make my own diesel.

It's not making your own diesel, it's simply that they will run on vegetable oil. Bluetec is what they call their diesel technology I believe.

Originally Posted by Brickboy240

Yes, many foreign car compaines make some really nice diesel sedans, but only VW an a few Benzes are avaialble in the states. Actually, VW does not offer any diesels this year, but is bringing them back out in 09. The Benz diesels are in the mid-range E class cars and are pretty expensive.

Then, theres the BMW hydrogen car...a 7 Series! Great...excuse me, but anyone that can afford a 7 Series Bimmer does not give a rip about fuel costs! I know several 7 Series and S Class Benz owners and believe me...they are not paying any attention to the price at the pump..nor are they worried about it.

The VW diesels are usually pretty decent cars. VW's build quality has gone down somewhat from the days when they were all built in Germany, so I worry about buying one of those. I wanted to look at the newer diesel Passats to replace the wife's S40 Volvo someday, but her exact words are "I am not going from a Volvo to a Volkswagen!" so that ended that.

Volvo also makes some really nice diesels that are everywhere in Europe. Last time we were in Sweden, I saw several S60 diesels and they were so quiet, I thought they were gas engines. They get well over 30mpg, too...and look nice. I have also seen nice 5 Series Bimmers and Audi A6s with diesel engines that looked really nice and I would love to have one...but...they're not avaiable in the states.

Bad thing about diesels lately has been the fact that the extra cost of a diesel car combined with the higher fuel price, negates the savings of buying diesel sedans over a gas sedan. If diesel was the same cost as gasoline...this picture would look better but a 4 bucks a gallon...the best bet is still a fuel efficient 4 or 6 cylinder sedan.

- Brickboy240

Actually, Mercedes diesels are no go. Their new models don't pass whatever the tests/emissions etc. Only BMWs diesels coming in this year and VW have diesels that meet the US standards. It might not be emissions, but this is coming from the Mercedes dealer I spoke to when checking out the new C-class.

In the 5 series, look for the 535d...it's amazing...the torque, the power, and the economy.

VW has come a long way in luxury and comfort from the 80s and 90s. The Phaeton is sweet, comparable to the Audi A8...check out its W12 engine.

VW has that image of the economy minded entry level car, but they have come a long way and are working on that image. I bet if your wife got in one, she'd be impressed.