I'm not sure how to even title this (Warning, cruelty to an animal)

[ArmyGuy45]

all in all what he did was wrong.. should he get kicked in the nuts for it..
YES.. since he is an American and we ( as Americans ) should not do such a thing.. its immoral
but other countries do it... and there is nothing we can do about it

[billbrasky]

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

It's not a matter of comfort zone, it's a matter of American culture...dogs are pets, not food. That's American culture. The last I checked, these were American cultures. So, just because you leave the country to fight in a war doesn't mean your culture leaves you and you adopt that of the locals. I'm only saying it should have been weird to that soldier as his culture from day one is that dogs are pets.

dogs are not pets to all Americans. Do you know any Asians? I know American Asians that eat dog in Asia on trips, and there are shady Asian markets, and shady middle eastern markets here in Detroit that sell all sorts of illegal stuff. They rationalize it ….. that its part of their culture. But wait how can that be all americans have the same culture?

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

Regardless of where you are, your culture stays with you. There is a difference between visiting a foreign area and trying dog dishes and you yourself killing a puppy by throwing it off a cliff (assuming it was alive).

culture doesn’t stay with you, memories may or may not but even memories fade. My great grandpa came from Argentina and he didn’t act like they do there, my Italian and Belgian great grandparents didn’t act the same in America either. Heck I adapt my behavior just going from the burbs to the city, or the burbs to the country.

I think trying a dish of dog is NOT ok, if you are against killing dogs, its not some tour of diversity where yeaaah awesome we are eating like Chinese or Koreans do! and it’s not brutal as long as I don’t see the blood. They don’t have animal cruelty laws in china; they don’t even have labor laws or environmental laws. Trust me if you eat dog in china they beat the snot outta those dogs. Dogs in china are treated like we treat insects. Completely disposable.

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

I'm just saying his culture from being raised in the US should have kicked in and said "This is weird and not normal to me." Or, he's just a sadist.

Well there is an army culture, there is also a war culture, and even gang culture/group culture. Folks both do and permit stuff to happen around them in large groups that alone they would never stand for this is a proven sociological phenomenon.

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

Wow, you really do jump on people and are pretty harsh and rough.

that’s opinion, I am fair and consistent though, you for example didn’t give the poster an ear full that said some forum members should be thrown off a cliff or did I miss that part? I have never said anything near that harsh or rough. Especially involving a video that could be a hoax.

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

It's different when others do it in other countries as its part of their culture...killing a dog that is, or eating a dog. Throwing a dog off a cliff for no reason other than to throw it off a cliff isn't normal for anyone. Killing a dog for the hide or for food may be normal and that's fine. I'm simply saying it's not a normal act for an American. Read above. My issue is that this guy threw the dog off the cliff for the sake of doing and found it necessary to videotape it for shock value. It's not as if the soldier was stranded away from his other soldiers and killed the dog for food.

Ill go out on a ledge here and say they are seeing death of fellow soldiers, death of locals and tens of thousands of starving dogs in the streets, and tens of thousands of dead animal. I am thinking at some point you become numb to it, like doctors don’t get ill seeing blood as disease like I would. You’re judging soldiers of their past culture, you in your culture, and they no longer share your reality. Not fair.

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

See above and above. It's not the killing, but how it's done. It is disturbing when anyone bashed the head in of animal or just slams it against the wall. I'm not ok with skinning while it's alive...I'm not ok with the Asian dish where the fish is scaled alive, flash fired, and served while it's still attempting to breath. What's the point other than shock value?

Depends are you putting it out of its misery, and killing as quickly as possible, or like chinese fur trade where cheap is what matters, and pain does not matter.

I think its a freshness thing for the fish, the Japanese pay enormous sums for fresh fish in remote areas to the point they developed acupuncture for fish, they stack them deep in Styrofoam tubs, barely any water, and the acupuncture slows the heart beat. They send them inland to restaurants pull out the needles and fry them up. The cooking still alive is pure taste for them.

Well when we go to the Middle East like say in Saudi Arabia in dessert storm we had to conform to their culture like no alcohol, no porn no crosses etc. When people come here to America some do adapt to our culture, and some do not, I am not aware of culture being a law. Killing an animal is killing an animal, it just is. Killing raccoon dogs to sell to companies to make coats, is not some subsistence farmer killing a chicken.

There isn’t one American culture, farm animals like a farm cat is not valued, it keeps the mice down, and working dogs like on a cattle ranch are often tools. Many liberal sociologists would argue dog fighting culture in the inner city is normal. That’s part of America also. Doesn’t make it ok, but we don’t have one culture.

I didn’t even say what they did was right or even ok. Just that in Iraq there are no animal cruelty laws. Throwing a dog off a cliff is arguable no more cruel than snapping its neck and putting out of its misery.

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by billbrasky

dogs are not pets to all Americans. Do you know any Asians? I know American Asians that eat dog in Asia on trips, and there are shady Asian markets, and shady middle eastern markets here in Detroit that sell all sorts of illegal stuff. They rationalize it ….. that its part of their culture. But wait how can that be all americans have the same culture?

Didn't say they do. I simply said "American" culture. Hmm...illegal stuff and shady markets...glad it's right up there with buying illegal guns and drugs. Criminals either way if it's illegal.

We're not talking about an Asian. This guy isn't Asian. Stick to the point, not some skewed detail and obscurity.

Originally Posted by billbrasky

culture doesn’t stay with you, memories may or may not but even memories fade. My great grandpa came from Argentina and he didn’t act like they do there, my Italian and Belgian great grandparents didn’t act the same in America either. Heck I adapt my behavior just going from the burbs to the city, or the burbs to the country.

That's fine and true for some, there are people who move here and don't speak English after 60 years.

That's fine, but your relatives didn't change overnight or over a 9 month tour of duty. It was years and years of being forced to eat what's available and deal with society as it exists around you. Not just a few days, weeks, or months.

Originally Posted by billbrasky

I think trying a dish of dog is NOT ok, if you are against killing dogs, its not some tour of diversity where yeaaah awesome we are eating like Chinese or Koreans do! and it’s not brutal as long as I don’t see the blood. They don’t have animal cruelty laws in china; they don’t even have labor laws or environmental laws. Trust me if you eat dog in china they beat the snot outta those dogs. Dogs in china are treated like we treat insects. Completely disposable.

That's fine, but don't tell me what's ok with me and what's not. I ate food in Germany I wouldn't have thought about eating here. Blood sausage sound good to anyone? Didn't sound good to me either...it's not something I really need to eat again, but I tried it. I tried a number of things that were "different."

Just like people going to Africa or other parts of the world where insects are a food source. You don't see that much here, but it doesn't mean I can't be ok with it.

Originally Posted by billbrasky

Well there is an army culture, there is also a war culture, and even gang culture/group culture. Folks both do and permit stuff to happen around them in large groups that alone they would never stand for this is a proven sociological phenomenon.

That doesn't make it ok. Throwing a dog off a cliff for the sake of doing it doesn't make it ok just because someone felt like it or it was in a combat zone.

[quote=billbrasky;958299] that’s opinion, I am fair and consistent though, you for example didn’t give the poster an ear full that said some forum members should be thrown off a cliff or did I miss that part? I have never said anything near that harsh or rough. Especially involving a video that could be a hoax.[/qoute]

I didn't give the original poster an earful because it wasn't the poster who was in the video. I didn't say he should be thrown off a cliff or discharged because I don't think that should happen. I simply said it was wrong to do it for the sake of doing it. It wasn't for food or anything other than the shock value of doing it. It may be hoax and you nor I know that. I was simply going on it being a real video...to discuss the actions at hand, we have to assume it's real. If we all assumed it was a hoax, there'd be nothing to talk about. That's why I didn't say anything about a court martial or anything of the sort. I was simply judging the actions, not the person.

Originally Posted by billbrasky

Ill go out on a ledge here and say they are seeing death of fellow soldiers, death of locals and tens of thousands of starving dogs in the streets, and tens of thousands of dead animal. I am thinking at some point you become numb to it, like doctors don’t get ill seeing blood as disease like I would. You’re judging soldiers of their past culture, you in your culture, and they no longer share your reality. Not fair.

This isn't trench warfare in the country side or warfare where horse mounted calvary are going up against machine guns...I highly doubt there are 10s of thousands of dead animals from the result of the war. Not even close unless you're counting rats. Only those in India would have a problem with that.

Soldiers and their past culture? You act like these people aren't Americans any more. Every person I knew personally that enlisted, went to a combat zone, and came back still have American culture. Sure, some of them may have different outlooks on life, but all of them aren't out there throwing puppies off cliffs or smashing their heads. They still like American sports, American food, and living in a free country.

Originally Posted by billbrasky

Depends are you putting it out of its misery, and killing as quickly as possible, or like chinese fur trade where cheap is what matters, and pain does not matter.

Doesn't matter to me, I think that's wrong. I'm not a huge fan of PETA by any means but there is no need to make an animal suffer to get at its meat or skin.

Originally Posted by billbrasky

I think its a freshness thing for the fish, the Japanese pay enormous sums for fresh fish in remote areas to the point they developed acupuncture for fish, they stack them deep in Styrofoam tubs, barely any water, and the acupuncture slows the heart beat. They send them inland to restaurants pull out the needles and fry them up. The cooking still alive is pure taste for them.

I'm sure a live fish that was just scaled, gutted, and fried but not dead tastes a whole lot different than a fish that's killed, scaled, gutted, and fried at the restaurant and takes about 5 seconds longer to chop the head off. I'm sure it's a huge difference.

Originally Posted by billbrasky

Well when we go to the Middle East like say in Saudi Arabia in dessert storm we had to conform to their culture like no alcohol, no porn no crosses etc. When people come here to America some do adapt to our culture, and some do not, I am not aware of culture being a law. Killing an animal is killing an animal, it just is. Killing raccoon dogs to sell to companies to make coats, is not some subsistence farmer killing a chicken.

Skinning a dog alive is not acceptable. The skin comes off just as well with the dog having a bullet through the head or completely beheaded.

Chickens are hung upside down by their feet on a conveyor system and have their throats slit and the blood drains out.

Originally Posted by billbrasky

There isn’t one American culture, farm animals like a farm cat is not valued, it keeps the mice down, and working dogs like on a cattle ranch are often tools. Many liberal sociologists would argue dog fighting culture in the inner city is normal. That’s part of America also. Doesn’t make it ok, but we don’t have one culture.

Dog fighting is a black culture, not American culture. It's a subculture. Farm cats have a purpose around the farm which is best completed by living cats, not cats skinned alive or with bashed in heads. I highly doubt any of those farm cats are consumed for food by the people that own the farm.

Originally Posted by billbrasky

I didn’t even say what they did was right or even ok. Just that in Iraq there are no animal cruelty laws. Throwing a dog off a cliff is arguable no more cruel than snapping its neck and putting out of its misery.

That's fine, you can say you're not agreeing with it, but you sure are defending how it's legit and Ok. I would have been fine with snapping it's neck or shooting it. If it's rabid or there's something wrong with it that it needs to be killed, fine, do it but get it over with. Put a bullet through it's head or snap it's neck. If there's no reason to kill it other than to kill it, then leave it alone. These guys were not killing a dog to protect their position. They were having a good time with their video camera.

[Cannibul]

PETA kills a LOT more dogs than this Marine and yet I don't see anyone bashing them.

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by Cannibul

PETA kills a LOT more dogs than this Marine and yet I don't see anyone bashing them.

They get bashed all the time. If we bashed PETA as much as we probably should, the thread would be longer than the never ending thread.

[Gryff]

One measure of a man is how he treats the people and animals over which he has absolute control. When he thinks that he doesn't have to answer to anybody, how does he act? THAT will tell you who he is.

I have the feeling that this video is not completely what it seems, but if it is true then I wouldn't shed a tear if very bad things happen to that guy over there. I just hope that his (possible) penchant for stupidity and cruelty doesn't cost his fellow soldiers their lives, too.