(PV) Mainstream Media Acknowledges The National ID Card - Page 2 - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

**AZXD** · 01-21-2008, 11:15 AM

Arizona has a lame Governor who is aligning herself with JohnMcamnesty so she can take over his position if he get's elected/retires

But at least the local paper is talking about this. WTF is a 3-in-1 card

I've got some studying to do.

Quote:

January 15, 2008 - 9:03PM

Whether REAL ID or '3-in-1’, enhanced licenses extend government’s reach into our daily lives

Comments 2| Recommend 1
Tribune Editorial

A showdown is officially in place between the U.S. Homeland Security Department and at least 17 states, including Arizona, over whether to turn our driver’s licenses into the rough equivalent of national identification cards.

We would like for the states to win this argument. But we hope our elected officials recognize the tremendous risk to our regional economy and the serious inconveniences for everyone if the federal government doesn’t back down.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff on Friday released proposed rules to enforce the 2005 REAL ID law, passed in an effort to improve reliability and reduce fraudulent use of state driver’s licenses. Basically, anyone under 50 would have to get upgraded driver’s licenses within six years, and the IDs would have to be embedded with information that could be verified electronically by every state and various federal agencies.

People who don’t have these upgraded licenses eventually would be subject to new restrictions nationwide such as extraordinary security measures at airports and forbidden from entering many federal buildings.

Capitol Media Services reported Friday that states unable to comply with the rules by May 11 would be able to request waivers, as long as they promise to do so at some point. Gov. Janet Napolitano certainly wants to do that. She has even signed an agreement with Chertoff to create a special “3-in-1” license that would meet the REAL ID mandate and also serve as a U.S. passport and proof of legal residency to work here.

But many Arizona lawmakers oppose the “3-in-1” license and REAL ID in general as the critical step toward creating a national identification card.

Napolitano has heard the concerns of privacy advocates, and emphasized in her State of the State address that a “3-in-1” driver’s license would be entirely voluntary.

In the past, our attempts to explain the role of reliable identification in the context of the immigration debate has confused some people. So let us be clear. We philosophically oppose the REAL ID law as allowing the national government to peer even deeper into our lives when less onerous options sponsored by individual states likely would work. We share the concerns of Sen. Karen Johnson, R-Mesa, that a voluntary “3-in-1” license eventually could become mandatory to satisfy the forces that brought about the REAL ID law in the first place.

But we also recognize that state driver’s licenses already have become dependable identification for most people. Arizona and other states could bolster their case against REAL ID if they upgraded driver’s licenses on their own to reduce fraud, or found a way to turn back time to make them unnecessary to write checks, to check out movies and to board airplanes.

**eric_t12** · 01-21-2008, 11:26 AM

entirely voluntary until the system is in place, and "costs are too great to continue" the old card...

i'm awaiting that day.

**eric_t12** · 01-21-2008, 11:46 AM

so far my state legislators are seemingly 2/3 onboard with our position.

which is a good thing.

here's my senator's response

Quote:

You made some great points and have enlightened me alot. I'll have many questions to ask, but it certainly sounds like federal coercion to me.
Sen. Olson

**AZXD** · 01-21-2008, 01:17 PM

Someone get's it.
I've highlighted key points. Of what this could easily become.
Amerika sounds about right.

Quote:

Commentary

Under Real ID, privacy will be nonexistent
Melanie Scarborough
2008-01-21 14:46:09.0
Current rank: # 40 of 6,522
Welcome to Amerika. With its recent issuance of rules for implementing the “Real ID” law - the requirement that states issue driver’s licenses according to federal dictates and link the information to a nationwide database - the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has taken another page from the Soviets’ playbook. Stalin required Russian citizens to carry an internal passport ostensibly because “counterrevolutionaries” posed a threat. Amerikans will be required to show their papers to prove they aren’t terrorists or illegal immigrants.

Because an internal passport is the hallmark of totalitarianism, DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff is trying to play Americans for fools. He insists that Real ID, which must meet federal standards and be used for federal purposes, is not a federal identity card because the states will be the issuing agents. That‘s like your employer trying to convince you he has no control over your salary because the checks come through the payroll department.

Seventeen states have passed legislation or resolutions opposing Real ID, and 19 other states have such actions pending because they recognize what Congress did not: If this law is actually implemented, it will mean the end of privacy and freedom.

That is inevitable because the amount of information required to be imbedded on the card will increase, as will the places where its presentation is required. Congress originally suggested that the card would be necessary to enter federal buildings, board commercial aircraft, open a bank account, or access nuclear power plants - but allowed expansions “for any other purposes that the [DHS[ Secretary shall determine.” Secretary Michael Chertoff already has added entry to national parks to the list.

And don’t forget that Congress foolishly gave the Secret Service authority to control national events such as Super Bowls and presidential inaugurations. Merely to watch a football game, Amerikans will have to show their papers.

Privacy will be non-existent because the DHS dictates that identity cards must have bar codes readable by common technology. So not only will tens of thousands of government employees have access to your Social Security number, date of birth, residential address, etc., but every private facility that requires you to present ID will capture that information as well. Identify theft will be child’s play.

Perhaps the most alarming aspect of Real ID is that it transfers to the government ultimate control over citizens’ movements. The ID card of a citizen not in good standing could have a hold put on it, just like a credit card can. If your ID card is declined, you will be unable to travel, access your money, get a job, enter buildings, or go about the basic routines of life until you have restored favor with your government.

Think that’s hyperbole? Driver’s licenses already are used for such purposes. In Texas, a driver's license can be suspended for failure to provide requested medical information to the government. In Florida, a license can be revoked for "an immoral act in which a motor vehicle was used." Wisconsin residents can lose their driver's licenses for failure to pay library fines, shovel the snow off their sidewalk, or trim a tree overhanging a neighbor's property. Montana residents are not allowed to drive if they default on college loans. Many states punish those who fail to pay child support, taxes, court judgments, or parking fines by revoking their driver's licenses.

Effectively "grounding" adults is cheaper than sending them to jail, and a national ID card linked to a central database would allow the government to be all that more efficient. Want to board a plane in North Carolina? Not until you pay those library fines in Wisconsin.

The real travesty is that it is all for nothing because it won’t make anyone safer. Establishing someone’s identity does not reveal their intent. In a pathetically vapid defense of Real ID, Chertoff asks, “Should banks cash checks from people who cannot prove who they are? Should parents hire baby-sitters they know nothing about? Should airlines let passengers on board without validating their identity?”

Well, knowing that the babysitter is, in fact, Suzy Smith, says nothing about her skill with children. A bank needs to know whether a check is good, not the bearer’s immigration status. Knowing a traveler’s Social Security number doesn’t tell an airport screener whether the individual is carrying a bomb.

National identity cards don’t make anyone safer; they only make citizens less free. Real ID is a real bad law that Congress ought to repeal. Real soon.

Examiner Columnist Melanie Scarborough lives in Alexandria.

**XDAndMe** · 01-21-2008, 01:17 PM

I'm vehemently OPPOSED to National ID. This gestapo policy can kiss my @$$.

Jim B · 01-21-2008, 01:34 PM

Unless I am very mistaken, it seems to me that the part of the Real I.D. that is of concern is a little bitty thing that is about the size of a grain of rice. It's been used in book bags in Japan (I remember reading) it's been used in pets to identify lost or stolen animals.....and as I remember an article about what might be this thing, it was planned to embed it into humans under the arm in the fatty tissue so it did not migrate with normal daily activity. It could hold medical history, etc, etc.

Now, if DHS is starting it to help with counter-terrorism efforts, I worry that the next step will be to prevent people who are compelled to get one, and under the concern for loss or theft of the 'card' to instead have the embedded part that's in the card......put on our bodies, not too far a cry. But a big concern. It echo's of prophesy about to be fulfilled. It could be linked to commerce, etc.

Jim B

Reeek · 01-21-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tard

In the lifetime of your kids, I predict the following will come true:

1) You must carry a specific Federal ID at all times. (Show me your papers!)
2) You must present it to make a financial transaction or work. (Show me your papers!)
3) You must present it to travel from state to state. (Show me your papers!)
4) Roadblocks will appear to catch people w/o their 'papers'. (Show me your papers!)
5) People caught without their papers will be detained in federal facilities. (Show me your papers!)
6) It will be readable from 40' away w/ scanners without your knowledge or consent. (No need to show me your papers!)
7) When your ID is stolen by hackers, your finances will be frozen until it is cleared up by a federal agency both understaffed and under-trained to perform this task within 3 months. Probably your ability to function is society will be frozen. Possibly debtors prisons will come back. (I'll die fighting this)

Your 'right' to firearm ownership will be gone. (I'll die first)

This doesn't sound like the USA anymore . . . The first thing that comes to mind is this whole notion of papers and REAL ID sounds like it would have come under another party's White House.

It's starting to look like "tough on terrorism" means tough on US Citizens . . .

Jim B · 01-21-2008, 01:56 PM

http://www.verichipcorp.com/index.html

this is the technology I am watching

cougar_guy04 · 01-21-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XDAndMe

I'm vehemently OPPOSED to National ID. This gestapo policy can kiss my @$$.

I'm pretty much in line with that statement. Thing is, I can email/write/call my senators, reps, and state representatives until I'm blue in the face and they don't seem to care. Then again, it's the People's, er, Daley's Republik of Illinois

Yuppicide · 01-21-2008, 03:08 PM

"The ID card of a citizen not in good standing could have a hold put on it, just like a credit card can. If your ID card is declined, you will be unable to travel, access your money, get a job, enter buildings, or go about the basic routines of life until you have restored favor with your government."

It seems to me that they would have to take all of our guns away first, because the inability to move freely in society would seriously piss Americans off, and spark a bloody revolution against the government. I mean look how angry people get just trying to get on a plane now.
I highly doubt People would put up with "Nazi-style" roadblocks everywhere they went.

This is the kind of Shyte that would finally wake us up. I would have absolutly NO mercy/compassion for any Government employees, or Police Officers who would go against the Constituition, and citizens of the United States to uphold these laws or work at said checkpoints. Also, If I'm "Not allowed" to get a job, or access my own money.....well that would mean I'd be POOR, ANGRY, have alot of FREETIME, and NOTHING TO LOSE!!!!

01-21-2008, 11:26 AM	#12
eric_t12 XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: SD Posts: 3,767	entirely voluntary until the system is in place, and "costs are too great to continue" the old card... i'm awaiting that day. __________________ FBI: Gun Owners are Potential Terrorists Our Economic Future: GAO 21st Century Challenges The Police Have No Duty To Protect You VFW Life Member GOA Life Member "There are lots of problems, but if you destroy the dollar, you're going to destroy a worldwide economy, and that's what we're doing." Ron Paul - Speech on the house floor 29SEP2008 opposing the reworked economic 'rescue' plan

01-21-2008, 03:08 PM	#20
Yuppicide XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Get outta my way! Can't you see I'm from East Bay? -NOFX Posts: 2,136	"The ID card of a citizen not in good standing could have a hold put on it, just like a credit card can. If your ID card is declined, you will be unable to travel, access your money, get a job, enter buildings, or go about the basic routines of life until you have restored favor with your government." It seems to me that they would have to take all of our guns away first, because the inability to move freely in society would seriously piss Americans off, and spark a bloody revolution against the government. I mean look how angry people get just trying to get on a plane now. I highly doubt People would put up with "Nazi-style" roadblocks everywhere they went. This is the kind of Shyte that would finally wake us up. I would have absolutly NO mercy/compassion for any Government employees, or Police Officers who would go against the Constituition, and citizens of the United States to uphold these laws or work at said checkpoints. Also, If I'm "Not allowed" to get a job, or access my own money.....well that would mean I'd be POOR, ANGRY, have alot of FREETIME, and NOTHING TO LOSE!!!! __________________ . "I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth, banks are going bust, shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter....."

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

01-21-2008, 01:17 PM	#15
XDAndMe XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: PA, USA Posts: 3,402	I'm vehemently OPPOSED to National ID. This gestapo policy can kiss my @$$.

01-21-2008, 01:34 PM	#16
Jim B XDTalk Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: MI Posts: 92	Unless I am very mistaken, it seems to me that the part of the Real I.D. that is of concern is a little bitty thing that is about the size of a grain of rice. It's been used in book bags in Japan (I remember reading) it's been used in pets to identify lost or stolen animals.....and as I remember an article about what might be this thing, it was planned to embed it into humans under the arm in the fatty tissue so it did not migrate with normal daily activity. It could hold medical history, etc, etc. Now, if DHS is starting it to help with counter-terrorism efforts, I worry that the next step will be to prevent people who are compelled to get one, and under the concern for loss or theft of the 'card' to instead have the embedded part that's in the card......put on our bodies, not too far a cry. But a big concern. It echo's of prophesy about to be fulfilled. It could be linked to commerce, etc. Jim B

01-21-2008, 01:56 PM	#18
Jim B XDTalk Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: MI Posts: 92	http://www.verichipcorp.com/index.html this is the technology I am watching