CCW holders - cuffed during traffic stop? - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

Caribou · 12-17-2007, 10:22 AM

I got my CCW (called CPL here in Michigan) a couple months ago, and have read many accounts here and other places about peoples' traffic stops. Almost all have been very positive, and in most cases, one the officer is told that the person has a CPL, there is no issue and the officer just carries out the rest of his duties.
Yesterday, however, I was talking to a fellow CPL holder, who tells me that in Michigan, it's usual for the CPL holder to be handcuffed during the stop! I was told to expect it if I was ever involved in a shooting, but during a routine traffic stop? Both my friend and another of his friends have been cuffed "for their safety" during traffic stops. This just blows my mind! What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

Am I overreacting? Anyone else in Michigan, or anywhere else for that matter, consider this standard operating procedure?

**yocan** · 12-17-2007, 10:39 AM

Never hear of it happening in Detroit, but they call for back up before they walk up to your car if they know you carry.

Tard · 12-17-2007, 10:40 AM

I bet they aren't telling you the whole story here.

Everyone I've ever know who was arrested said the same thing...

"I wasn't doing ANYTHING and the cop just came over and arrested me!"

When I saw the police report, well, a whole different story emerged.

I'll never live in a state where the cops treat CCW like criminals (from what I hear, quite a few of the east coast states are like this).

kayl · 12-17-2007, 10:58 AM

I used to work as a civilian for an agency in Michigan, but I have not heard of this practice.

east_stingray · 12-17-2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tard

I bet they aren't telling you the whole story here.

Everyone I've ever know who was arrested said the same thing...

"I wasn't doing ANYTHING and the cop just came over and arrested me!"

When I saw the police report, well, a whole different story emerged.

I'll never live in a state where the cops treat CCW like criminals (from what I hear, quite a few of the east coast states are like this).

A year and a half ago, I would have agreed with you completely. Since that time I've been hassled by an overzealous officer and had months worth of crap to clear up after that. I didn't bother posting the story here because I've got better sense than that and quarterbacking it won't change what happened.

**jalley** · 12-17-2007, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caribou

I got my CCW (called CPL here in Michigan) a couple months ago, and have read many accounts here and other places about peoples' traffic stops. Almost all have been very positive, and in most cases, one the officer is told that the person has a CPL, there is no issue and the officer just carries out the rest of his duties.
Yesterday, however, I was talking to a fellow CPL holder, who tells me that in Michigan, it's usual for the CPL holder to be handcuffed during the stop! I was told to expect it if I was ever involved in a shooting, but during a routine traffic stop? Both my friend and another of his friends have been cuffed "for their safety" during traffic stops. This just blows my mind! What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

Am I overreacting? Anyone else in Michigan, or anywhere else for that matter, consider this standard operating procedure?

Just because you are cuffed, it does not mean you are being arrested.

Also, innocent until proven guilty has nothing to do with being arrested.

**Mad Geek** · 12-17-2007, 12:19 PM

Quote:

What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

Like what was stated, handcuffed doesn't mean arrested, nor guilty VS innocent. It is just a matter of the LEO controlling what he may perceive as a potential threat. I'm sure I wouldn't feel all "warm and fuzzy" in that situation, but you don't necessarily know what that officer has seen come across his computer screen or heard on his radio just prior to contact with you.

rogerxd45 · 12-17-2007, 12:20 PM

ive bbeen cufed before a couple different once was when i was about 16 we were paint balling and someone called in and said there is people shooting automatic weapons down by the river (which is were we played) well there was a total of 19 cops i think called in on it about 10-12 cop cars well they came down the hill guns drawn but we saw them comeing so we put the guns down and put our hand up. they were really nice but i didnt think the cuffs were needed. they took us up the hill to the parking lot of my parents restaurant and as we were sitting on the ground in cuffs my dad pulled up i think he almost had a heart attack. well it turned out there wasnt a sign saying we couldnt be down there on the path we took but there were signs on the other paths so they let us off.

the other time i had my 45 sitting on the dash of my car and i got pulled over and i asked if i could get out of the car or have him take the gun out so there wouldnt be any mistakes well he aked if it was ok if he put me in cuffs and i said yea thats fine and he cuffed me and i sat on the hood of his car. it didnt bother me one bit. what ever they need to do to make it safer for them and the people they are pulling over is fine with me

Ishpeck · 12-17-2007, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tard

When I saw the police report, well, a whole different story emerged.

Devil's advocate time!

You'd _expect_ the police report to say "And we were totally justified in arresting this guy." Police reports can hardly be considered an objective perspective.

Caribou · 12-17-2007, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Geek

Like what was stated, handcuffed doesn't mean arrested, nor guilty VS innocent. It is just a matter of the LEO controlling what he may perceive as a potential threat. I'm sure I wouldn't feel all "warm and fuzzy" in that situation, but you don't necessarily know what that officer has seen come across his computer screen or heard on his radio just prior to contact with you.

Maybe I'm feeling anti-authority today, but what if I don't feel all warm and fuzzy with HIM having a gun, and I ask him to leave it in his car?

My point is, we CPL holders have already been vetted, no bad records allowed. Heck, we're the GOOD guys who went through the hoops to get the permit in the first place. I mean, it's a TRAFFIC STOP, not a probable drug bust. They don't cuff everyone they pull over just in case there might be a gun in the car. (Yes, I know they always expect trouble at any stop). If they are afraid of a gun being pulled on them, why don't they cuff everyone?

12-17-2007, 10:22 AM	#1
Caribou XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: S. E. Michigan Posts: 378	CCW holders - cuffed during traffic stop? I got my CCW (called CPL here in Michigan) a couple months ago, and have read many accounts here and other places about peoples' traffic stops. Almost all have been very positive, and in most cases, one the officer is told that the person has a CPL, there is no issue and the officer just carries out the rest of his duties. Yesterday, however, I was talking to a fellow CPL holder, who tells me that in Michigan, it's usual for the CPL holder to be handcuffed during the stop! I was told to expect it if I was ever involved in a shooting, but during a routine traffic stop? Both my friend and another of his friends have been cuffed "for their safety" during traffic stops. This just blows my mind! What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Am I overreacting? Anyone else in Michigan, or anywhere else for that matter, consider this standard operating procedure? __________________ CARIBOU “The federal government has taken too much tax money from the people, too much authority from the states, and too much liberty with the Constitution.” —Ronald Reagan

12-17-2007, 10:39 AM	#2
yocan XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Detroit Posts: 2,262	Never hear of it happening in Detroit, but they call for back up before they walk up to your car if they know you carry. __________________ The three requirements for a school shooting. 1 know the floorplan. 2 Know the threats inside the location and response time/entry time for the police 3. Royally screwed up intelligent analytic mind. We need more laws to protect these three rights. Ban guns in schools, it obviously works.

12-17-2007, 10:40 AM	#3
Tard XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Machias, WA Posts: 3,852	I bet they aren't telling you the whole story here. Everyone I've ever know who was arrested said the same thing... "I wasn't doing ANYTHING and the cop just came over and arrested me!" When I saw the police report, well, a whole different story emerged. I'll never live in a state where the cops treat CCW like criminals (from what I hear, quite a few of the east coast states are like this). __________________ If you aren't part of the solution you are part of the precipitate.

12-17-2007, 10:58 AM	#4
kayl XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: WI Posts: 1,252	I used to work as a civilian for an agency in Michigan, but I have not heard of this practice. __________________ Have you talked to your XD today?

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12-17-2007, 12:20 PM	#8
rogerxd45 XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: boise ID (its boy-see, not boy-z) Posts: 3,592	ive bbeen cufed before a couple different once was when i was about 16 we were paint balling and someone called in and said there is people shooting automatic weapons down by the river (which is were we played) well there was a total of 19 cops i think called in on it about 10-12 cop cars well they came down the hill guns drawn but we saw them comeing so we put the guns down and put our hand up. they were really nice but i didnt think the cuffs were needed. they took us up the hill to the parking lot of my parents restaurant and as we were sitting on the ground in cuffs my dad pulled up i think he almost had a heart attack. well it turned out there wasnt a sign saying we couldnt be down there on the path we took but there were signs on the other paths so they let us off. the other time i had my 45 sitting on the dash of my car and i got pulled over and i asked if i could get out of the car or have him take the gun out so there wouldnt be any mistakes well he aked if it was ok if he put me in cuffs and i said yea thats fine and he cuffed me and i sat on the hood of his car. it didnt bother me one bit. what ever they need to do to make it safer for them and the people they are pulling over is fine with me