CCW holders - cuffed during traffic stop?

[east_stingray]

Originally Posted by MGD 45

That's a different situation than the original post that deals with Officer's handcuffing for safety purposes.

Right... I was referring to Tengu's comment about "cuffing them, even if he's not going to arrest them." All I was saying is that you HAVE arrested them BY cuffing them, even if you let them go five minutes later and don't do any paperwork.

[VFRpilotJim]

I live in Michigan but have not been pulled over since getting my CPL two years ago, so I can't offer any firsthand experience. I do have two friends that have. In one case, the officer seemed unbothered when informed about the gun, and the stop went normally (ticket issued for seat belt but not for 56/45 speed). In the other case, the officer asked my friend to keep the interior light on and his hands on the wheel. No ticket issued.

I imagine that it is usually up to the officers' discretion, but I wouldn't be surprised if some departments have a policy they demand their officers to follow. I would be a little upset if I was handcuffed in front of my wife and kids during a stop.

Jim

[The Tengu]

Originally Posted by east_stingray

Right... I was referring to Tengu's comment about "cuffing them, even if he's not going to arrest them."

I didn't say those exact words, so they don't really belong in quotes.

An officer can detain an individual with reasonable suspicion of an offense.

If I think they are a fight or flight risk, I cuff them.

Originally Posted by east_stingray

All I was saying is that you HAVE arrested them BY cuffing them, even if you let them go five minutes later and don't do any paperwork.

Simply handcuffing someone does not equal an arrest, especially if they're let go five minutes later. Check Riordan and Bruzy v. Trooper Joyner.

[MGD 45]

The basic legal definition of "Arrest" is if someone "freedom of movement has been restricted by the police". This means that if I point my finger at you and say, "Stop! Don't move!" then guess what....? Yep, your techically under arrest. Same as when I stop you in your car with your lights & sirens. Are you free to just drive off whenever you want to? No you can't. So technically, your under arrest.

However, all that being said.....the courts have ruled on the handcuffing thing and police may handcuff anyone anytime during the course of performing their job for safety purposes. Doing so doesn't mean that your under arrest for any crime and I don't have to have probably cause to do it. When I'm done with my investigation/stop, then I can simply take them off and release you.

[NC Dave]

I think a lot of folks are confusing being detained with being arrested. The two are not the same.

[Tard]

Some teenagers were clearly casing cars to steal, my boss saw it through his office window and called the police.

When the police came, we couldn't hear what was being said but we sure could understand the attitude of the teens, it was 'bite me, pig!".

Well, they all ended up standing in the rain for about 90 minutes, cuffed in back, while the cops investigated. We literally sat and ate our lunches watching them stand there.

In the end, they didn't have any burglary tools and hadn't actually done anything yet, so they were released.

My guess is the attitude was wiped from their smartass little mouths for a while.

[TAT MAN]

I'm from Mich.
I've been pulled over a few times with my carry permit, speeding, window tint, etc., when I inform the officer that I'm carrying. I notice, that they are a little more cautious, in their stance, they ask where my gun is, and ask to see my permit, but other than that,,, no problems. never have they asked to see my gun.

[Pugs]

Originally Posted by Tard

Some teenagers were clearly casing cars to steal, my boss saw it through his office window and called the police.

When the police came, we couldn't hear what was being said but we sure could understand the attitude of the teens, it was 'bite me, pig!".

Well, they all ended up standing in the rain for about 90 minutes, cuffed in back, while the cops investigated. We literally sat and ate our lunches watching them stand there.

In the end, they didn't have any burglary tools and hadn't actually done anything yet, so they were released.

My guess is the attitude was wiped from their smartass little mouths for a while.

Ah... Tard...

Clearly, you misunderestimastand the power of denial and the victim mentality.

"Man... we wasn't doin' nuttin' an' 5-0 come all rollin' up on us like d'ey bad or sump'in... Pigs hook us up an' leave us standin' in the rain like we some kinda criminals..."

"Uh, you are criminals... you were looking for cars to steal..."

"D'at ain't da point, Dawg! D'ey didn't ha'f nuttin' on us! We was jus' hangin' out... far as d'ey knew..."

"But you did want to steal a car, right? And their job is to investigate crime and prevent crime when they can, right?"

"Nuh, uh! D'ey was jus' profilin' us! D'ey ain't had no... uh... wha'd'ya callit... probable clause! Yeah, d'ey ain't had no probable clause to be hookin' us up an' makin' us stan' out in da rain like d'at!"

"So this is a case of police abusing their powers?"

"Uh... yeah! An' if I get's sick, I'm'a sue d'em pigs fo' e'ryt'ing d'ey gots, Dawg! Freakin' pigs wanna give ma rights some fringes... Sheeit... I'll fringe 'em upside d'ey head, d'ey try d'at sh!t again... I'll pull my Glock Foh-TAY on d'ey a$$!"

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by NC Dave

I think a lot of folks are confusing being detained with being arrested. The two are not the same.

Yep.

[Tard]

Originally Posted by Pugs

Ah... Tard...

Clearly, you misunderestimastand the power of denial and the victim mentality.

"Man... we wasn't doin' nuttin' an' 5-0 come all rollin' up on us like d'ey bad or sump'in... Pigs hook us up an' leave us standin' in the rain like we some kinda criminals..."

"Uh, you are criminals... you were looking for cars to steal..."

"D'at ain't da point, Dawg! D'ey didn't ha'f nuttin' on us! We was jus' hangin' out... far as d'ey knew..."

"But you did want to steal a car, right? And their job is to investigate crime and prevent crime when they can, right?"

"Nuh, uh! D'ey was jus' profilin' us! D'ey ain't had no... uh... wha'd'ya callit... probable clause! Yeah, d'ey ain't had no probable clause to be hookin' us up an' makin' us stan' out in da rain like d'at!"

"So this is a case of police abusing their powers?"

"Uh... yeah! An' if I get's sick, I'm'a sue d'em pigs fo' e'ryt'ing d'ey gots, Dawg! Freakin' pigs wanna give ma rights some fringes... Sheeit... I'll fringe 'em upside d'ey head, d'ey try d'at sh!t again... I'll pull my Glock Foh-TAY on d'ey a$$!"

Oh crap, you are right.