CCW holders - cuffed during traffic stop?

[MGD 45]

Originally Posted by Ishpeck

Devil's advocate time!

You'd _expect_ the police report to say "And we were totally justified in arresting this guy." Police reports can hardly be considered an objective perspective.

Spoken like a true "I've been arrested before" person....

[SgtWKPII]

The LEO shouldn't cuff you untill he senses you as a threat. If the first thing you say to him when he gets to your window is "Officer, I have a gun," he may consider that a threat, even if you state you have a CCW. When I get pulled over I don't even state that I am carrying or have a ccw. I carry concealed, and that means to Police too. If he asks I will say yes, but I have never even been asked at a traffic stop.

[Yuppicide]

Originally Posted by Ishpeck

Police reports can hardly be considered an objective perspective.

What? The Police are ALWAYS truthful! You must be a LYING COP HATER!

........."Oh wait" Says Yuppicide as he does a quick internet search on falsified police reports:

DALLAS — Two Texas police officers frequently made homeless people and prostitutes sign blank tickets so they could later fill them out with whatever offenses they chose, according to a Dallas Police Department investigation.
Dallas Police Chief David Kunkle said investigators concluded the two officers used the blank tickets as a law-enforcement tool against habitual offenders. If those offenders always had unpaid tickets, then officers could obtain arrest warrants and take people into custody at any time, Kunkle said.
"It's hard for me to understand any circumstances where that would be appropriate," Kunkle told The Dallas Morning News. "It certainly violates fundamental fairness if people don't have the opportunity to know what they're being charged with or get proper notification."


FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- A sheriff's detective was fired after being charged with falsifying documents in police reports.
He is the third official charged in the state attorney's 17-month probe into allegations that Broward County sheriff's deputies closed cases by attributing them to people who could not have committed the crimes.
Joe Isabella, 34, was fired Thursday after he told investigators he had improperly cleared cases and falsified reports. He was charged with a misdemeanor count of falsifying documents and is scheduled to be arraigned on Monday.

He blamed pressure from supervisors who wanted to lower crime statistics.


A former Pittsburg police officer was sentenced Thursday to 180 days in jail and three years probation for five counts of falsifying police reports.
Jim Hartley, 41, pled no contest to the charges and Contra Costa Superior Court Judge Diana Becton Smith handed down the agreed upon sentence in court Thursday. Hartley has until October 22 to report to jail, or he can request electronic home detention for the duration of his sentence.
A prosecutor noticed some similarities in two of Hartley's police reports earlier this year. That led to a full investigation by the Pittsburg Police Department and the discovery of 39 remarkably similar drug arrest reports, court records show.
Hartley and his attorney reached a deal with the district attorney's office to plea no contest to five charges and accept the six month sentence.
He will not be able to work as a police officer again, a prosecutor said. The investigation also revealed similar inaccuracies in the reporting of fellow Officer Javier Salgado who was also charged with five counts of falsifying police reports and awaits sentencing.

........Need More, cause theres PLENTY!!

[Caribou]

Originally Posted by SgtWKPII

The LEO shouldn't cuff you untill he senses you as a threat. If the first thing you say to him when he gets to your window is "Officer, I have a gun," he may consider that a threat, even if you state you have a CCW. When I get pulled over I don't even state that I am carrying or have a ccw. I carry concealed, and that means to Police too. If he asks I will say yes, but I have never even been asked at a traffic stop.

In Michigan, you HAVE to state to the "peace officer" that you have a CPL.

[Polymerhead]

During my last traffic stop, I told the officer I was carrying first thing. He took me back to the car to write the ticket, and just told me to "keep that thing in my pocket". I would be kind of pissed if I were ever cuffed during a stop.

I really love living in the midwest sometimes.

[east_stingray]

Originally Posted by Polymerhead

During my last traffic stop, I told the officer I was carrying first thing. He took me back to the car to write the ticket, and just told me to "keep that thing in my pocket". I would be kind of pissed if I were ever cuffed during a stop.

I really love living in the midwest sometimes.

I really don't understand why, in all the accounts I have heard, the officers treat CCWers differently during a stop than they would anyone else? LEOs on the board, can you help me with the logic behind this? Someone who went through the legal channels to get the permit, and then TOLD you that they were armed for YOUR benefit is then going to try and hurt you? I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it seems less likely than your average traffic stop going wrong.

[Mad Geek]

Originally Posted by Caribou

Maybe I'm feeling anti-authority today, but what if I don't feel all warm and fuzzy with HIM having a gun, and I ask him to leave it in his car?

MG: Don't know where that would be an option, but OK.

My point is, we CPL holders have already been vetted, no bad records allowed. Heck, we're the GOOD guys who went through the hoops to get the permit in the first place. I mean, it's a TRAFFIC STOP, not a probable drug bust. They don't cuff everyone they pull over just in case there might be a gun in the car. (Yes, I know they always expect trouble at any stop). If they are afraid of a gun being pulled on them, why don't they cuff everyone?

OK, but aren't you making a general assumption that every time a person is stopped "...it's a TRAFFIC STOP,..". You don't know what they are in the middle of that prompted the traffic stop to begin with. They may or may not be willing to trust that what you tell them is fact. You and I know that we've gone through the security checks and all, but I would expect that if I tell an LEO that I am armed, legally or not, and he's looking for some middle aged white guy, in an old truck, with a gun, his adrenal glands might be spiking his intake. Asking me to step out of the car, allow him to remove or ask me to put my pistol on the hood of my truck wouldn't make me feel violated. If he further felt the need to put me in cuffs while he finishes his check, other than my pastor driving past and seeing me in that position causing me embarrassment, I can do that. I wouldn't like it every time I get stopped, but I would live to see another day. It would put him in control of a situation where he feels the need to be.

Originally Posted by Caribou

In Michigan, you HAVE to state to the "peace officer" that you have a CPL.

In CA there is no requirement to do so, but that would be the one of the first things out of my mouth after he asked for license, reg and proof of insurance. Much better to have him looking at you KNOWING you can legally carry a gun and are currently than have his partner (if he has one) see it through the passenger window and hollar "GUN!"

[Super Trucker]

I am in Wayne county, I drive a heavy haul truck for a living, so I get pulled over all the time. I got my CPL when the law passed in 2001, I would estimate I get stopped about 15 times a year.
I have only had 1 bad experience with a copper concerning my CPL. I had a state trooper out of the Detroit post stop me, because "I looked over weight" (I was actually empty at the time, but that is a different topic) I handed him my papers with the CPL on top of my license and told him yes I was carrying. The first thing he did was ask why I did not leave the gun in the truck, so I told him that I did not for the same reason he did not leave his in the car. It went down hill from there. Long story short, he was anti gun big time, but I have never been handcuffed for legally carrying my gun, not even by that rude trooper.

I would have to say somebody is screwing with you, or not telling the "whole story".

[retired]

LEOs on the board, can you help me with the logic behind this?

east_stingray, I wish I could answer this for you, but in my 15yrs. in patrol, I never met anyone with a ccw.

But, as you know, I live in S. Ca. and I worked in L.A. County, never a bastion of ccw carriers.

I wish I had as I would have probably thanked them for going to the trouble of obtaining one. Well, after I tased them and wrote them the most expensive ticket I could. j/k about the last 2 parts.

[jdavionic]

I carry in the car pretty much all the time. I have never been pulled over with a gun in the car. If (and more likely, when) I get pulled, I plan on turning on my overhead light and keeping both hands on top of the steering wheel. When the officer approaches, I will immediately tell him or her (preferably ) that I have a loaded firearm in the vehicle and that I have a permit to legally carry the weapon. At that point, I don't have any issues with the officer (provided they are polite & respectful) taking extra measures to make them more comfortable with the situation. If they feel the need to remove me from the vehicle and temporarily cuff me, I really don't care. If they're a jerk about it and my kids happen to be present too, they will likely find a future complaint & lawsuit over the bad behavior. But in general, I am quite tolerant of folks in uniform since I'm convinced it's a thankless, stressful, and highly risky job. With so many police shootings, I just try to put myself in their shoes...would I be nervous if someone had a loaded firearm in the vehicle and was fidgeting around or presented a hostile demeanor? Of course I would. So I try to do things that I would want others to do for me...hmm, that sounds familiar