[PV] If RP hopes to win he will have to denounce some of his supporters - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

wombat13 · 11-14-2007, 01:22 PM

There was thread a while back about neo-Nazis, 9-11 truthers and other extremists among RP's supporters. The following article offers a summary:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/...n_and_its.html

I'll give RP the benefit of the doubt and assume that he doesn't really share the views of the people cited in this article. That said, I don't see how RP can win the nomination, let alone the Presidency without publicly distancing himself from these folks. As soon as he appears to be more than a well-funded also-ran he will be hit with this stuff from all sides and he will be forced to make a statement. The fact that he hasn't already distanced himself from these folks suggests one of three things must be true:

1. He naively believes that guilt-by-association won't hurt him.
2. He is standing on the principle that all people are free to donate to the candidate of their choice.
3. He depends on donations from these extremists.

If the reason is either one or two above, RP is going to be in for an unpleasant lesson. Guilt-by-association is a very effective tactic and there are times when unyieldingly standing on principle proves very counterproductive.

**eric_t12** · 11-14-2007, 03:37 PM

ETA: linky no worky.

and he has said that he doesnt' believe 9/11 was an inside job, that's been posted in that same referrenced thread, i'm sure.

he's said i dont know how many times "freedom is popular", or "freedom brings people together". the fight for freedom from excessive taxation brought the Federalists and Anti-Federalist types together to be free of the brits, and i'm sure there were pro- and anti-slavery in the same camp, the staunchly religious (ben franklin) and the 'less active' (thomas paine)...

hardly Neo-Nazis, or "truthers" above, but the concept remains true.

although i do agree with your "guilt by association" comment, mostly, as well as the 'counterproductive' one, mostly.

ETA Also: when i google Ron paul, i am looking for his views, statements he's made, things he's done - not trying to decide whether or not the publication had at one point "backed" a book about anti-semitism.

if they are so into "guilt by association" why don't they ask old GW why his brother jeb, and a Secretary, and the VP all endorsed war with iraq by signing the PNAC letter in 1998?

Prometheus · 11-14-2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wombat13

Guilt-by-association is a very effective tactic and there are times when unyieldingly standing on principle proves very counterproductive.

Not as much as it was in the past, in fact today I believe it to be BENEFIT.

Listen to Paul speak.. he acknowledges his supporters are EVERYONE: White, black, liberals, conservatives, republcians, democrats, Christians, Jews, Muslims, athiests, gun lovers, dope lovers, gay lovers, strait ones and "even the occasional anarchist".

Why? Because FREEDOM IS POPULAR and FREEDOM UNITES EVEN THOSE NORMALLY OPPOSED TO EACH OTHER.

The old ideas about having to appeal to every it turns out is true... Not by being wishy-washy (as hillary did with her licenses for illegals) but by appealing to the one thing we all want... LIBERTY.

Kick those tired old worn own lines and silly mantra about "distance yourself from XYZ" to the curb. This is the Revolution and we are uniting behind one thing... LIBERTY.

Liberty... the right to think whatever in the heck you want and not be thrown into prison for it.

Screw the thought police. Screw those notions that you have to bash someone or distance from them simply because they exist.

I think many people have forgotten just WHAT Liberty is:

Quote:

Liberty, N
autonomy: immunity from arbitrary exercise of authority: political independence
freedom of choice; "liberty of opinion"; "liberty of worship"; "liberty--perfect liberty--to think or feel or do just as one pleases"; "at liberty to choose whatever occupation one wishes"
personal freedom from servitude or confinement or oppression
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

To suggest that some who espouses Liberty should trample upon the very Liberties he champions is an unconscionable thing to ask. You should be ashamed of yourself.

**Powerman** · 11-14-2007, 07:24 PM

Paul has flat out stated he does not agree with these folks, yet you do not want to listen. Swift boat tactics once again. Why do you as a rational thinking person need his assurance. Either you weigh the facts and see that he too shares these beliefs, or you see he does not. It's called critical thinking.

What this is, is trying to force a non issue. Swift Boat smear tactics. There are mountains of speeches about what Paul beieves, yet you post this article demanding clarification on folks that like him. What does that have to do with anything? What are the issues. What are his stands. Either you agree, or not. It's real simple. Look past the smoke screen.

Ishpeck · 11-15-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wombat13

1. He naively believes that guilt-by-association won't hurt him.

Doesn't look like it hurts Hillary much.

**XDAndMe** · 11-15-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powerman

Paul has flat out stated he does not agree with these folks, yet you do not want to listen. Swift boat tactics once again. Why do you as a rational thinking person need his assurance. Either you weigh the facts and see that he too shares these beliefs, or you see he does not. It's called critical thinking.

What this is, is trying to force a non issue. Swift Boat smear tactics. There are mountains of speeches about what Paul beieves, yet you post this article demanding clarification on folks that like him. What does that have to do with anything? What are the issues. What are his stands. Either you agree, or not. It's real simple. Look past the smoke screen.

+

**AZXD** · 11-16-2007, 06:49 AM

I think it's great how the opposers to Paul's message are now coming forth with a repetition of the same old message. It shows just how viable he actually is. Keep spreading the word via these tactics. It is easily overcome. It allows those who have not heard of the man and his message, to realize what he stands for.

All I can say is thanks for another great thread

Society has IMO deemed Guilt by Association a thing of the past, and questions the validity of a swift-boat tactic.

So again, Thanks!!!!!

jdavionic · 11-16-2007, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powerman

Paul has flat out stated he does not agree with these folks, yet you do not want to listen. Swift boat tactics once again. Why do you as a rational thinking person need his assurance. Either you weigh the facts and see that he too shares these beliefs, or you see he does not. It's called critical thinking.

What this is, is trying to force a non issue. Swift Boat smear tactics. There are mountains of speeches about what Paul beieves, yet you post this article demanding clarification on folks that like him. What does that have to do with anything? What are the issues. What are his stands. Either you agree, or not. It's real simple. Look past the smoke screen.

Very well said!

**Pharmakon** · 11-16-2007, 07:14 AM

It's funny how Hilary or Kucinich aren't getting negative press and blogs up the wazzoo for receiving donations from communists. You guys remember our old bogeyman the commie don't you? And I'm sure plenty of backwater klansmen are going to support Frudy McRomney on pro-war and minority entitlement issues and I don't hold that against old Frudy. Americans, crazy or not, will vote and support their interests.
I really have yet to see a convincing piece of anti-Paul ammo aside from his delivery at the last few debates(not everyone can exude eloquence like Bush).
Now as for the other candidates...

11-14-2007, 01:22 PM	#1
wombat13 XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Western NY Posts: 1,569	[PV] If RP hopes to win he will have to denounce some of his supporters There was thread a while back about neo-Nazis, 9-11 truthers and other extremists among RP's supporters. The following article offers a summary: http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/...n_and_its.html I'll give RP the benefit of the doubt and assume that he doesn't really share the views of the people cited in this article. That said, I don't see how RP can win the nomination, let alone the Presidency without publicly distancing himself from these folks. As soon as he appears to be more than a well-funded also-ran he will be hit with this stuff from all sides and he will be forced to make a statement. The fact that he hasn't already distanced himself from these folks suggests one of three things must be true: 1. He naively believes that guilt-by-association won't hurt him. 2. He is standing on the principle that all people are free to donate to the candidate of their choice. 3. He depends on donations from these extremists. If the reason is either one or two above, RP is going to be in for an unpleasant lesson. Guilt-by-association is a very effective tactic and there are times when unyieldingly standing on principle proves very counterproductive.

11-14-2007, 03:37 PM	#2
eric_t12 XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: SD Posts: 3,767	ETA: linky no worky. and he has said that he doesnt' believe 9/11 was an inside job, that's been posted in that same referrenced thread, i'm sure. he's said i dont know how many times "freedom is popular", or "freedom brings people together". the fight for freedom from excessive taxation brought the Federalists and Anti-Federalist types together to be free of the brits, and i'm sure there were pro- and anti-slavery in the same camp, the staunchly religious (ben franklin) and the 'less active' (thomas paine)... hardly Neo-Nazis, or "truthers" above, but the concept remains true. although i do agree with your "guilt by association" comment, mostly, as well as the 'counterproductive' one, mostly. ETA Also: when i google Ron paul, i am looking for his views, statements he's made, things he's done - not trying to decide whether or not the publication had at one point "backed" a book about anti-semitism. if they are so into "guilt by association" why don't they ask old GW why his brother jeb, and a Secretary, and the VP all endorsed war with iraq by signing the PNAC letter in 1998? __________________ FBI: Gun Owners are Potential Terrorists Our Economic Future: GAO 21st Century Challenges The Police Have No Duty To Protect You VFW Life Member GOA Life Member "There are lots of problems, but if you destroy the dollar, you're going to destroy a worldwide economy, and that's what we're doing." Ron Paul - Speech on the house floor 29SEP2008 opposing the reworked economic 'rescue' plan Last edited by eric_t12; 11-14-2007 at 03:46 PM.

11-14-2007, 07:24 PM	#4
Powerman XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,047	Paul has flat out stated he does not agree with these folks, yet you do not want to listen. Swift boat tactics once again. Why do you as a rational thinking person need his assurance. Either you weigh the facts and see that he too shares these beliefs, or you see he does not. It's called critical thinking. What this is, is trying to force a non issue. Swift Boat smear tactics. There are mountains of speeches about what Paul beieves, yet you post this article demanding clarification on folks that like him. What does that have to do with anything? What are the issues. What are his stands. Either you agree, or not. It's real simple. Look past the smoke screen. __________________ XD-45 service Springer Trigger job TFOs Welcome to the new equality. You too can be just as retarded as Rosie. Coal... Powering China's economic engine. Liberals now see it as a way to destroy ours.

11-16-2007, 06:49 AM	#7
AZXD XDTalk 15K Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Valley of the GUN Posts: 16,638	I think it's great how the opposers to Paul's message are now coming forth with a repetition of the same old message. It shows just how viable he actually is. Keep spreading the word via these tactics. It is easily overcome. It allows those who have not heard of the man and his message, to realize what he stands for. All I can say is thanks for another great thread Society has IMO deemed Guilt by Association a thing of the past, and questions the validity of a swift-boat tactic. So again, Thanks!!!!! __________________ . . Prepare for the worst scenario and hope for the best!!! Ignorance is curable, but stupidity is fatal. When one is prepared, it gives them peace of mind and eliminates the panic button which often leads to unnecessary waste and tragedy. The so-called "reasonable gun control" measures will take us all to the day when the last single-shot shotgun that grandpa owned is cut into pieces.

11-16-2007, 07:14 AM	#9
Pharmakon XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 1,502	It's funny how Hilary or Kucinich aren't getting negative press and blogs up the wazzoo for receiving donations from communists. You guys remember our old bogeyman the commie don't you? And I'm sure plenty of backwater klansmen are going to support Frudy McRomney on pro-war and minority entitlement issues and I don't hold that against old Frudy. Americans, crazy or not, will vote and support their interests. I really have yet to see a convincing piece of anti-Paul ammo aside from his delivery at the last few debates(not everyone can exude eloquence like Bush). Now as for the other candidates... __________________ Fascism is popular.

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