Kitty

[Bree]

This story appeared in Newsday.

http://www.newsday.com/community/gui...,7944135.story

It depicts in a way few others can why we should carry. It also lays out the issue of moral compass and responsibility.

Do you risk your security, freedom, and prosperity for the life of another human being? Do you step up and save Kitty?

[Philadelphia]

I think the question we each have to ask ourselves is that if we are the ones under attack, do we want others to step in and help us. If the answer is "yes" (one would hope) then we are obligated to help others. If no one steps up then no one steps up. If we are all willing to do something then everyone is willing to do something.

Bree, I think I know how you come down on this and I agree that we are obligated to do what we can to help others.

Here's another perspective I came across recently. It reminds us merely that as in all things and almost goes without saying, before using deadly force we have to be sure the use of that force is appropriate. No matter what the situation though, if circumstances don't make crystal clear exactly what's going on, the use of a cellphone to call police is the very least everyone should do if the circumstances allow (as in something bad is obviously about to happen -- who the BG is isn't clear and you have a moment to dial 911 before/while taking other actions). From there, do as circumstances and your own conscience guide you (and when you call police, remember to tell them you are armed -- don't get shot by the good guys).

http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_t...g/hero_110207/

[Bree]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia

I think the question we each have to ask ourselves is that if we are the ones under attack, do we want others to step in and help us. If the answer is "yes" (one would hope) then we are obligated to help others. If no one steps up then no one steps up. If we are all willing to do something then everyone is willing to do something.

Bree, I think I know how you come down on this and I agree that we are obligated to do what we can to help others.

Here's another perspective I came across recently. It reminds us merely that as in all things and almost goes without saying, before using deadly force we have to be sure the use of that force is appropriate. No matter what the situation though, if circumstances don't make crystal clear exactly what's going on, the use of a cellphone to call police is the very least everyone should do if the circumstances allow (as in something bad is obviously about to happen -- who the BG is isn't clear and you have a moment to dial 911 before/while taking other actions). From there, do as circumstances and your own conscience guide you (and when you call police, remember to tell them you are armed -- don't get shot by the good guys).

http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_t...g/hero_110207/

Good link. The issue conflicts me. One side says STEP UP while the more cautious side says, Mind your own business. In the Kitty case, I think that if I heard a woman screaming that she is being stabbed and killed... and I have a gun... I am going to STEP UP.

There are other cases where I might not be so right-minded. I don't think I can flat out say one way or the other. I think for me it is a case-by-case call. Of course, the next question I ask myself is what characteristic of a particular case like the Kitty case would tip the balance to going to her defense? If I am going to STEP UP, what exactly is causing me to do that?

[aiformula]

I can say I would at the very least call the pd. Not sure how far beyond that I would go other than to be a very good witness and stay on the phone. I might pull out a gun (a scoped rifle in this case) on the off chance the individual comes back. The scope would also allow me to possibly id wounds/weapons and determine who the victim really was if the light was favorable. I don't own binocs.

[aiformula]

picture from the handguns article....




Damn David, get that thing recoated... the Glockers are gonna make fun of us and our character wielding guns again.

[Tard]

That's what MY XDs look like that get carried and holstered/re-holstered a lot in training.

[ElJimmyStrappo]

The Kitty Genovese phenomenon. A very interesting topic in ethics.

[polaris]

I would think I would step up and have on one occasion. But in this day and age, if you step up and draw a weapon it could turn around to haunt you.

You could get the old "your not a trained professional, just call police"

or brandishing firearms charges and a host of other things.

In my situation, I told the cops that I was super close to shooting the attacker (thank god I didn't need to) and they just thanked me for helping.

But it could be a fine line. It would be a judgement call with quick snap decisions!!

[Ishpeck]

I'm not sure if I could bring myself to heft outta bed and intervene on behalf of someone I don't already know. I value my sleep very highly and I wouldn't want to unnecessarily endanger myself to save a stranger. It's tough to care about folks who aren't in my own little monkeysphere. I sleep through everything anyway. I'm useless once I hit the pillow.

My neighborhood's full of kids who make noise at night. Cops got sick of being called out to tell the kids to shut up. People've been threatend with fines over the matter: Boy who cried wolf kind of scenario.

Not saying it's right, I'm just stating a fact. I admit that I'm mortal and am more tribalistic than anything.

I would hope that I had the moral fiber to help. If given such an opportunity, I think I probably would... but I can't say for sure until it actually happens.

[gsh341]

I understand all the opinions about not getting involved because you don't know the facts and you might be aggravating a situation, etc. But lets review the facts if Kitty's case from the perspective of her neighbors.

Someone is yelling for help and is crying out that she is being stabbed to death. Looking out the window you see a man hurrying away from a woman that is bleeding and on the ground. You recognize the woman as someone that lives in your neighborhood.

You have a few options.

1. Do nothing.

2. Call the police and monitor the situation until the cops arrive.

3. Go help the bleeding woman.

The people in the neighborhood all chose option 1 and a woman died. A compassionate person would and should do option 2 at least. And if you chose option 3 you could be pretty sure that a knife wielding attacker is not a police officer performing an arrest.

If you chose option 3 and the attacker came back and approached you, you would be legally justified in defending yourself with a firearm. I seriously doubt any jury in the US would find you guilty of murder for defending a stabbing victim from her attacker by shooting and killing the attacker.