Bin Laden Theory....

[robinsre]

Ah, so, you are citing this as evidence that this might actually be the current situation.

Regardless, I feel that the entire premise is flawed. Al Queda is about as fragmented as you can get. We're not dealing with a unified country or army here. As I understand a similar ideology is about all that links the various terror cells throughout the country/world. I don't feel that killing Bin Laden will have any effect on their organization whatsoever, though his public humiliation might well dampen their moral fortitude.

IF we could JUSTIFIABLY show that lives could DEFINITELY be saved by slightly postponing this man being brought to justice, then perhaps it would be worth waiting a few months (much in the same way that our police hesitate to use force in hostage situations). However, allowing him to elude justice indefinitely in the hopes that MAYBE we'll get some sort of viable helpful information is a perversion of justice itself IMHO.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by robinsre

Ah, so, you are citing this as evidence that this might actually be the current situation.

Regardless, I feel that the entire premise is flawed. Al Queda is about as fragmented as you can get. We're not dealing with a unified country or army here. As I understand a similar ideology is about all that links the various terror cells throughout the country/world. I don't feel that killing Bin Laden will have any effect on their organization whatsoever, though his public humiliation might well dampen their moral fortitude.

IF we could JUSTIFIABLY show that lives could DEFINITELY be saved by slightly postponing this man being brought to justice, then perhaps it would be worth waiting a few months (much in the same way that our police hesitate to use force in hostage situations). However, allowing him to elude justice indefinitely in the hopes that MAYBE we'll get some sort of viable helpful information is a perversion of justice itself IMHO.

Exactly!!!!!

So what of my scenario Judge? Any comments?

[AZXD]

Well Judge,
I see that you logged off & don't want to play word games with me, so I guess this thread will do whatever it does.

Try a better scenario next time.
This one was to easy

[Judge]

I agree that he must be put down at some point, hopefully slowly and painfully but...

I don't think AQ is compeltely fragmented yet. The communications with BL and the Iraq 'heads' of AQ show they still report to him and take some direction fromhim. He's still the one that sends out the major event signals.

I also know that within the past 6 months US troops have been given the green light to do black ops within Pak. While we've probably done some before, this is on a much larger scale. I think things are about to come to a head, or so I hope.

Originally Posted by robinsre

Ah, so, you are citing this as evidence that this might actually be the current situation.

Regardless, I feel that the entire premise is flawed. Al Queda is about as fragmented as you can get. We're not dealing with a unified country or army here. As I understand a similar ideology is about all that links the various terror cells throughout the country/world. I don't feel that killing Bin Laden will have any effect on their organization whatsoever, though his public humiliation might well dampen their moral fortitude.

IF we could JUSTIFIABLY show that lives could DEFINITELY be saved by slightly postponing this man being brought to justice, then perhaps it would be worth waiting a few months (much in the same way that our police hesitate to use force in hostage situations). However, allowing him to elude justice indefinitely in the hopes that MAYBE we'll get some sort of viable helpful information is a perversion of justice itself IMHO.

[Judge]

I'm sorry, but I rarely read your long rants - they seem as if written by a temperamental 12 year old, rambling, poorly organized or reasoned. It's just rather droll to try to follow whatever the line of thought is.

If you have a specific honest question, I'll try to answer as I always do.

Originally Posted by AZXD

Exactly!!!!!

So what of my scenario Judge? Any comments?

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by Judge

I agree that he must be put down at some point, hopefully slowly and painfully but...

I don't think AQ is compeltely fragmented yet. The communications with BL and the Iraq 'heads' of AQ show they still report to him and take some direction fromhim. He's still the one that sends out the major event signals.

I also know that within the past 6 months US troops have been given the green light to do black ops within Pak. While we've probably done some before, this is on a much larger scale. I think things are about to come to a head, or so I hope.

Well, I see we almost agree on one thing. But slowly and painfully, isn't that kind of twisted? Just kill the guy and be done with it.

If you know for sure that AQ still report to him and take some direction from him and that he's still the one that sends out the major event signals, it would seem the best thing to do is get rid of the guy. Like I said your mentality on this is flawed.

Why would anyone allow such a huge influence to survive if he were capable of acting as a communication point for AQ actions. Especially given your scenario of knowing where he is.

As for black ops in Pakistan, funny how you provide additional information and change the scanario a little. How do you know this?
Did your friends at the Pentagon leak this information to you, or did you just make this up.
Either way, it is nothing earth shattering. We have had authorizations in place that allowed these types of operations to occur for decades, across the planet. So you are right when you say "we've probably done some before".
What I want to know is, how do you know it is now on a much larger scale in Pakistan?
Are you perpetuating a leak or just making something up?

Come on Judge, you have thus far laid out a scenario that states the OBL is alive and we know where he is. You choose to keep him alive in the hopes of picking up a few AQ who might be receiving orders from him.

To simplify this, here's an equivalent:
You are allowing the king to sit happily in his castle while you look in the woods for a few of his subjects. You hope to catch/kill a few of these subjects and are willing to engage in a firefight to do so. The firefight can and most likely will result in a few casualties. But you think this is better than storming the castle.

Why Judge?
Is there something here that I just don't see?

Look at the result of toppling Saddam, and then finding him hiding in a hole. Your scenario is the equal to leaving Saddam in his palace with orders to not attack the palace, so we can kill more Iraqi guard.

As for,
"I think things are about to come to a head, or so I hope".

What does this really mean?
Do you think after all this flawed logic of knowing where he is, allowing him to survive so we can gain intelligence, and sacrificing soldier's lives in the process, we are now going to go get him?

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by Judge

I'm sorry, but I rarely read your long rants - they seem as if written by a temperamental 12 year old, rambling, poorly organized or reasoned. It's just rather droll to try to follow whatever the line of thought is.

If you have a specific honest question, I'll try to answer as I always do.

Right!
That's a 12 year old answer if ever I heard one.

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by Judge

Just thought about this and throwing it out for the fun of it.

Theory:
1)We know where Bin Laden is. Exactly. We could take him out.
2) We're tapped into his intelligence and comm system.
3) We know what they're planning, when and with whom - is why we've been so extraordinarily successful at thwarting their major efforts to strike again.
4) If Bin Laden is taken out, AQ would fragment more, become more rogue, harder to track and discern future plans.
5) Bush made a decision to take the heat for not taking Bin Laden out so that we could work to taking AQ cells out and finding out their hidden cells first. We're still working on that.

Evidence - the video of Bin Laden captured a month before it's to be released... then released a few days before Bin Laden planned to spoil his showing... as well as our mysterious success at thwarting major attacks.

Just for the fun of it... have at it.

Seriously Judge, this is the most retarded thing I have ever heard. I'm not saying that because it's you. I'm saying it because it is retarded.

1. We sent 20,000 troops to Afghanistan for the sole purpose of getting OBL. We kicked off this whole WOT for the sole purpose of destroying AQ because they were responsible for 9/11. You remember, the invasion of our homeland and striking U.S. soil and killing over 3000 people and costing this country over $500 billion dollars.

2. the only purpose to tap into his comms isn't to thwart future attacks. Tapping his comms should be for the sole purpose of discovering where they are at and going and killing them.

3. Simply rediculous. What you are talking about is civil police work of thwarting criminal behavior. You don't keep the enemy alive so you can thwart future attacks. You KILL the enemy, and therefore, remove the threat of future attacks. What is happening now is police work is discovering plans, capturing those involved, and sending them to court. WTF do we have 170,000 troops overseas for???????

4. What? AQ is a terrorist organization. They are not a unified, organised, centraly based army now. They are fragmented. By invading Afghanistan and hoping the Pakistanis would kill them, we allowed them to commence operations in Iraq. Now they are in Pakistan and Iraq, and continue to direct cells through out the world. What exactly are we going to fragment more? When you take out leadership, you cause disunity. There will be internal power strugles. There will be lack of direction. You make them weaker, not stronger as you suggest.

5. Cut off the head and the body dies. You want to spin this as Bush's strategic brilliance. The truth is that this is Bush's cluster fu**. We drove AQ and the Taliban out of Afghanistan. We relied on Pakistan to do the mop up. They failed. We invaded Iraq and expected the citizens to just snap too and take care of themselves. We began withdrawing our troops and wasted a valuable year. A year in which AQ sparked a civil war and began KILLING our troops. If Bush found WMD stock piles, he would of displayed them on the WH lawn. If we captured OBL we would of made a spectacle out of him like we did Saddam. Bush would have thumed his nose at every nay-sayer out there. At ever critisim of his abuses of power, and poor fiscal responsibility, he would of held up a picture of OBL hanging from a rope, and every Bush supporter would eat it up.

We are still working on that hu? While we are working on rooting out the AQ network, AQ operatives are killing U.S. troops. OBL is still breathing. AQ continues their ways of control over Iraqi civilians and thousands die. Have you already forgot AQ bakes little kids???? We are not thwarting attacks that were planned pre 9/11. We are stopping attacks that were put into motion post 9/11. Which means they still have the ability to plan attacks and I doubt we will stop them all. AQ is not stupid. They will know what is compromised and they will adapt.

How many AQ operatives have we arrested in these failed attempts??? 50?? 100?? How many troops have died in Iraq??? How many funerals have you attended??? How many soldiers have been sacrificed to AQ in Afghanistan and Iraq??? I realize you are just "thinking out loud", but you really should have kept this one to your self.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by Powerman

Seriously Judge, this is the most retarded thing I have ever heard. I'm not saying that because it's you. I'm saying it because it is retarded.

1. We sent 20,000 troops to Afghanistan for the sole purpose of getting OBL. We kicked off this whole WOT for the sole purpose of destroying AQ because they were responsible for 9/11. You remember, the invasion of our homeland and striking U.S. soil and killing over 3000 people and costing this country over $500 billion dollars.

2. the only purpose to tap into his comms isn't to thwart future attacks. Tapping his comms should be for the sole purpose of discovering where they are at and going and killing them.

3. Simply rediculous. What you are talking about is civil police work of thwarting criminal behavior. You don't keep the enemy alive so you can thwart future attacks. You KILL the enemy, and therefore, remove the threat of future attacks. What is happening now is police work is discovering plans, capturing those involved, and sending them to court. WTF do we have 170,000 troops overseas for???????

4. What? AQ is a terrorist organization. They are not a unified, organised, centraly based army now. They are fragmented. By invading Afghanistan and hoping the Pakistanis would kill them, we allowed them to commence operations in Iraq. Now they are in Pakistan and Iraq, and continue to direct cells through out the world. What exactly are we going to fragment more? When you take out leadership, you cause disunity. There will be internal power strugles. There will be lack of direction. You make them weaker, not stronger as you suggest.

5. Cut off the head and the body dies. You want to spin this as Bush's strategic brilliance. The truth is that this is Bush's cluster fu**. We drove AQ and the Taliban out of Afghanistan. We relied on Pakistan to do the mop up. They failed. We invaded Iraq and expected the citizens to just snap too and take care of themselves. We began withdrawing our troops and wasted a valuable year. A year in which AQ sparked a civil war and began KILLING our troops. If Bush found WMD stock piles, he would of displayed them on the WH lawn. If we captured OBL we would of made a spectacle out of him like we did Saddam. Bush would have thumed his nose at every nay-sayer out there. At ever critisim of his abuses of power, and poor fiscal responsibility, he would of held up a picture of OBL hanging from a rope, and every Bush supporter would eat it up.

We are still working on that hu? While we are working on rooting out the AQ network, AQ operatives are killing U.S. troops. OBL is still breathing. AQ continues their ways of control over Iraqi civilians and thousands die. Have you already forgot AQ bakes little kids???? We are not thwarting attacks that were planned pre 9/11. We are stopping attacks that were put into motion post 9/11. Which means they still have the ability to plan attacks and I doubt we will stop them all. AQ is not stupid. They will know what is compromised and they will adapt.

How many AQ operatives have we arrested in these failed attempts??? 50?? 100?? How many troops have died in Iraq??? How many funerals have you attended??? How many soldiers have been sacrificed to AQ in Afghanistan and Iraq to AQ??? I realize you are just "thinking out loud", but you really should have kept this one to your self.

I tried to tell him his mentality was flawed, but he doesn't want to play.

He tried to play up how Mexican trucks are good for America over on this thread.
(PV) Some Ron Paul history
But he ended up running home to mommy again.

[beardman2]

Can't say its a terrible idea if it works. the only problem is there are plenty of ways to get info past us. All it takes is one small message to make it to the wrong people.

No thanks. off with his head and stick it on the WH lawn on a pike thank you.