Senator Larry Craig(R) Arrested(PV kinda)

[Powerman]

Originally Posted by jdavionic

Larry Craig does deserve forgiveness. But he doesn't deserve the job that he presently holds. Just because you are "human" and should be forgiven, it doesn't mean that you should not be held accountable and take responsibility for your actions.

Me too. What I hate about all this is his lack of willingness to take responsibility. He is a legislator! He didn't seek counsel and now thinks that was a bad decision???????

I don't care anything about the guy or his political affiliation. He was soliciting sex from guy, and then PLEAD GUILTY in a court of law. You don't just accept the charges, you have to agree to the charges, you have to say that yes indeed you committed those acts, and tell exactly what you are guilty of. Now, because the paper ran a story about it, you want to deny it all and say you are naive and misinformed when a court charges you with wanting to have sex with a guy in public. I could not believe his statement. Oh ya, and you are a SENATOR and your job entails writing laws??? Simply incredible.

[wombat13]

Originally Posted by jdavionic

In response to these statements, you don't find the same hypocrisy in the democratic party? The huge sweeping elections filled with promises to rid DC of corruption, only to later find that the very same people are engaged in, at the very least, poor ethical decisions (I wish I had $90k in the freezer). Point being, one party cannot be labeled more or less hypocritical than the other. I wasn't citing that you were somehow asserting that the democrats were all angles.

Lastly, I'm somewhat surprised to see a reluctance to hold politicians to even a certain level of decency. I have seen several posts with "people are people" opinions. A married man soliciting anonymous sex in the airport bathroom...that's just people being people A married soliciting anonymous sex at truck stops and adult book stores...that's just people being people. Discarding your responsibilities to the people you work for by illegally accepting large sums of money in a clear example of power abuse...that's just people being people. I'm sorry folks. I just don't get it. I expect, change that, demand that my elected officials behave in respectful manner and obey the same laws that I do. Just like, I expect that the teachers that teach our children must do the same, and our police officers, ...

Larry Craig does deserve forgiveness. But he doesn't deserve the job that he presently holds. Just because you are "human" and should be forgiven, it doesn't mean that you should not be held accountable and take responsibility for your actions.

Now that's a darn fine post. I would only like to add a comment to all the folks that get stuck on hypocrisy. Many of these folks who are accused of hypocrisy aren't hypocritical at all, they're just guilty of being weak. Hypocrisy is defined as "the practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness" (American Heritage Dictionary. While a hypocrite would profess to believe that certain conduct is wrong, even though he doesn't believe it to be wrong, I suspect that many of these folks actually believe what they are doing is wrong, yet they do it anyway. That's not hypocrisy, that's just run of the mill human weakness.

Please note, in no way do I excuse illegal behavior. I just wish to point out that the "hypocrite" card is overplayed.

Final comment, I'll have to stop listening to my iPod while on the can. Wouldn't want to get busted for lewd behavior for tapping my feet to the beat.

[jdavionic]

Originally Posted by wombat13

I would only like to add a comment to all the folks that get stuck on hypocrisy. Many of these folks who are accused of hypocrisy aren't hypocritical at all, they're just guilty of being weak. Hypocrisy is defined as "the practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness" (American Heritage Dictionary. While a hypocrite would profess to believe that certain conduct is wrong, even though he doesn't believe it to be wrong, I suspect that many of these folks actually believe what they are doing is wrong, yet they do it anyway. That's not hypocrisy, that's just run of the mill human weakness.

Please note, in no way do I excuse illegal behavior. I just wish to point out that the "hypocrite" card is overplayed.

I would respectfully disagree with you on hypocrite not being applicable or overstated. My reasons are purely based on cynicism; but I don't buy the idea that these individuals just suffered a weak moment (that by itself is absurd to me in this particular case) and that they otherwise do have the beliefs that they portray. In general, I think they are scumbags that are willing to do & say whatever is required to solidify their power base for the next election and to ensure that they stay in power. I'd be willing to bet this is not this senators first time engaging in this type of behavior. Just like I'd be willing to bet that those who point fingers at corruption in DC are knowingly engaging in corrupt activities themselves, and they have been in the past, and will do so in the future as long as they can get away with it.

[sloan1919]

good news! Larry Craig isn't gay after all! Check it out ... http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash.../08/craig.html

[wombat13]

Originally Posted by jdavionic

I would respectfully disagree with you on hypocrite not being applicable or overstated. My reasons are purely based on cynicism; but I don't buy the idea that these individuals just suffered a weak moment (that by itself is absurd to me in this particular case) and that they otherwise do have the beliefs that they portray. In general, I think they are scumbags that are willing to do & say whatever is required to solidify their power base for the next election and to ensure that they stay in power. I'd be willing to bet this is not this senators first time engaging in this type of behavior. Just like I'd be willing to bet that those who point fingers at corruption in DC are knowingly engaging in corrupt activities themselves, and they have been in the past, and will do so in the future as long as they can get away with it.

So are you saying you've never done something you know to be wrong more than once? For my part I believe that lying is wrong, but I've done it many times. Does that make me a hypocrite if I tell my children not to tell lies? No it doesn't because I believe that lying is wrong and I have often been ashamed of myself after telling a lie.

You may well be correct that most of these people are hypocrites (i.e., they don't actually believe what they publicly proclaim). I still believe that it is an important point that if someone's actions don't match his words, he is not necessarily a hypocrite.

[jdavionic]

Originally Posted by wombat13

So are you saying you've never done something you know to be wrong more than once? For my part I believe that lying is wrong, but I've done it many times. Does that make me a hypocrite if I tell my children not to tell lies? No it doesn't because I believe that lying is wrong and I have often been ashamed of myself after telling a lie.

Don't take this the wrong way...but if you routinely lie as part of dealing with people, etc, then preach to your children that they should not lie...you are a hypocrite. And yes, I've made many mistakes in my numerous years on this planet (nothing like those of our upstanding political representatives); but of course, growing up requires learning the hard way...at least it did for me many times. But you know what, I accept responsibility for my actions and most times I paid for them. And I have changed how I live my life and I do work to be an example for my children. I'm a firm believer in leading by example.

[cucamelsmd15]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070910/...eJGWT.1pKyFz4D

WASHINGTON - Sen. Larry Craig should be allowed to withdraw his guilty plea in a sex sting because he was under extreme stress after being hounded by journalists asking questions about his sexuality, his lawyer argues.
Craig, an Idaho Republican, pleaded guilty in August to disorderly conduct following a sting operation in a men's bathroom at the Minneapolis airport. His lawyer, William Martin, said he will file court documents Monday trying to undo that decision so Craig can fight the charge.
Martin said Monday that Craig did not "knowingly and intelligently enter a guilty plea." The senator simply admitted conduct that "itself does not constitute a crime," Martin said.
"He admits to going into the bathroom, he admits to moving his foot, he admits to reaching his hand down," Martin said on NBC's "Today" show. "That's not a crime."
Persuading a judge to withdraw a guilty plea is difficult but Craig will argue that he was under too much stress to knowingly plead guilty, Martin said.
"He was under tremendous pressure," Martin said in a telephone interview.
In particular, Martin cited pressure from Craig's hometown newspaper, the Idaho Statesman, which spent months investigating whether Craig engaged in homosexual encounters.
Craig, who has denied such suggestions and accused the newspaper of conducting a "witch hunt," was so concerned about that investigation, he quickly pleaded guilty when arrested in the bathroom sex sting, Martin said. Craig did not consult with a lawyer or appear in court.
He figured, "I'm innocent but if this will make it go away I'll do it," Martin said.
A police report alleged that Craig had solicited sex from a male officer at the Minneapolis airport in June.
Craig will also argue in court documents that he cannot have pleaded guilty since what he did was not illegal. The police officer said Craig bumped his foot, then tried to signal him with hand gestures beneath the stall divider.
Craig maintains he inadvertently touched the officer's foot but made no hand gestures. He said he was merely picking up a piece of paper.
"Even if you accept that he did what he did, it's not a crime," Martin said.
Martin said he was not involved in discussions about Craig's future in the Senate. Craig originally announced he would resign at the end of the month, then said he was reconsidering that decision. His chief spokesman later said Craig had dropped virtually all notions of trying to finish his third term.
"My job is to get him back to where he was before his rights were taken away," Martin said.
Craig's congressional spokesman has said the only way that Craig is likely to remain in the Senate is if a court moves quickly to overturn the conviction, something that is unlikely to happen before the end of the month.
But Judy Smith, a spokeswoman for Craig's legal team, said the lawyers are focused only on the Minnesota case, not political outcomes.
Many Republicans have urged Craig to say for sure that he will resign. That would spare the party an ethics dilemma and the embarrassment of dealing with a colleague who had been stripped of his committee leadership posts.
It also would negate the need for a Senate ethics committee investigation, which GOP leaders had requested.
If Craig succeeds in undoing his plea, he would likely try to have the charges dismissed to avoid an embarrassing trial.
Appearing on CNN's "Late Edition," Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., said Craig is entitled to his day in court.
"Maybe he'll be convicted, but I doubt it," said Specter, the Senate Judiciary Committee's ranking Republican.
Specter said that when he learned the details of the arrest "I was convinced that he couldn't be convicted if he fought the case."
Minnesota law is that a guilty plea may be withdrawn if it was not intelligently made "and what Sen. Craig did was by no means intelligent," said Specter.

Nah, Im pretty sure his intelligence stopped around the time that he solicited an officer for sex in a mens room.