(PV) McCain takes shot at Romney's religion - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

longtalltechsan · 06-21-2007, 11:00 AM

This was in the Boston Globe. Seems McCain isn't above doing anything to win.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...neys_religion/

Rival camps take aim at Romney's religion

By Scott Helman, Globe Staff | June 21, 2007
Gathering for their April meeting at the county courthouse, Republican activists from Warren County, Iowa, planned for this summer's county fair and vented about illegal immigration.

And then the county chairman for Senator John McCain's presidential campaign, Chad Workman, made an unexpected digression: He took direct aim at Mitt Romney's religion, according to four people at the meeting.
Workman questioned whether Mormons were Christians, discussed an article alleging that the Mormon Church helps fund Hamas, and likened the Mormons' treatment of women to the Taliban's, said participants, who requested anonymity to discuss the meeting freely.
One participant summed up Workman's argument this way: "The fundamental flaw of Mitt Romney . . . was that he was Mormon, not because he thinks this way or that way on one issue."
Workman did not return calls seeking comment.
In a presidential race in which Romney's candidacy is testing the country's attitudes toward Mormonism, the comments by a McCain representative in Iowa are the latest of several instances of rival campaign operatives trying to bring Romney's faith onto the campaign playing field. Over the past year, staff or volunteers from at least three opposing campaigns have, at times subtly and at times not, spread negative information about Mormons in an apparent effort to damage Romney's bid for the presidency.
McCain , of Arizona, and his campaign disavow attempts by supporters to highlight Romney's faith, and other campaigns have also resolutely rejected using religion as a weapon. But while the impact of the anti-Mormon messages is difficult to measure, the number of incidents suggests that Romney's religion will remain a tempting target for political opponents seeking a competitive edge.
The most recent example came to light earlier this week when the Washington Post reported that Emma Nemecek, an Iowa field operative for Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas, had recently forwarded an e-mail to Iowa Republicans containing a number of criticisms of Mormonism, including a charge that it is not a Christian faith. The e-mail closed with a quote from a Founding Father, John Jay: "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."
"This violated campaign policy," said Brownback spokesman Brian Hart. "The person that did it has apologized and been reprimanded, and Senator Brownback has disavowed . . . anything that would attack anyone's personal faith."
The campaign of former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani was forced to make a similar apology this month after The New York Sun reported that Katie Harbath, Giuliani's deputy e-campaign director, had forwarded to a blogger a story in The Salt Lake Tribune linking Romney to an unofficial Mormon prophecy that a leader of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would one day save the Constitution. "Thought you'd find this interesting," Harbath wrote to the blogger, the Sun reported.

A senior adviser to Giuliani, Tony Carbonetti, then issued a statement calling the e-mail "a regrettable mistake." "We extend our sincere apologies to Governor Romney and reaffirm our commitment to running a clean campaign," he said.

The April meeting in Warren County is one of several instances in which a representative of McCain's campaign has tried to highlight Romney's membership in the Mormon Church.
Last year, when Romney and McCain were battling to sign up supporters in key states, Romney's campaign got word that Chuck Larson, a former Iowa GOP chairman and now one of McCain's top Iowa advisers, had been calling Mormonism a "cult" while trying to woo state legislators and their staff. One Republican Larson approached, who would talk only on condition of anonymity, said that Larson told him, "He's a Mormon for crying out loud -- that's essentially a cult."
When David Kochel, a senior Romney adviser in Iowa, learned of Larson's comments, he complained to Larson's business partners. Larson then called back to apologize, according to Kochel, who recounted Larson's apology this way: "David, I just want you to know that I made a joke about Governor Romney's religion. It is not the kind of thing I'm proud of, and it's not the kind of thing I will ever do again."
Larson declined to comment.
There have been other scattered instances of McCain representatives raising Romney's religion. Earlier this year, for example, The State newspaper in Columbia, S.C., reported that McCain operatives had distributed to reporters comments by evangelical leader James Dobson questioning whether a Mormon could win the presidency.
Asked about such instances, Danny Diaz, a McCain spokesman, said in a statement: "On behalf of Senator McCain, we apologize for any comments made on the part of this campaign concerning Governor Romney's religion."
McCain, in an interview Monday with Globe reporters and editors, said Romney's faith should play no role in the campaign. "I think it's a terrible thing, really, for us to judge someone on their religion," he said .
Matt Rhoades, Romney's communications director, said such "attacks of religious bigotry . . . have no place in politics today."
"The campaign accepts that Senator McCain has apologized, and we expect that he will work to ensure that these types of activities will not happen again," Rhoades said. "The American people are not interested in these types of personal attacks."
Romney has faced repeated slights against his religion from other quarters as well. A Florida televangelist, Bill Keller, told followers recently that a vote for Romney is a vote for Satan. And a small group of worship ers from the Faith Christian Outreach Church in Mount Pleasant, Iowa, has been going door-to-door distributing a DVD that takes a critical look at the Mormon Church.
"Our concern was simply that Mormonism has continued to try and pass itself off as a Christian religion, which it is not," said Monte Knudsen, senior pastor at the church, who insisted the effort was not aimed at hurting Romney's candidacy.
There have been numerous anonymous attacks, too, such as an unsigned, eight-page screed that arrived last month in the mailboxes of influential South Carolina Republicans charging that Mormonism was a "politically dangerous" religion founded on a hoax. Sent from Providence, the mailing alleged that church members believe in multiple gods, likened its founder, Joseph Smith, to the Islamic prophet Mohammed, and raised alarm about future directives Mormons may be required to follow.
Romney's detractors have also used e-mail to stir suspicions about his faith. One note sent to South Carolina voters warned of the "dark suspicions" about Mormonism, telling recipients to "trust your instincts" because "Mitt Romney has a family secret he doesn't want you to know," Salon, the online magazine, reported recently. The "secret" was the long-acknowledged fact that Romney has polygamous ancestors, Salon reported.
"In some ways, [Romney's candidacy] is the best test of whether Americans have really put some of the old religious differences aside," said Alan Wolfe, director of the Boisi Center for Religion and American Public Life at Boston College. "And my guess is that they haven't."

XDinNC · 06-21-2007, 11:09 AM

Just like your sig line says, just because McCain has a big mouth....

I wish he would just go ahead and join the party he really belongs to - the Communist party. He's one free-speech hating SOB!

Brickboy240 · 06-21-2007, 12:10 PM

Mccais war hero status is wearing a bit thin with me...I am really growing to detest this man.

I am no fan of Mormonism...I don't think I am going to hell for drinking caffinated coffee for petes sake (you're entitled to believe so...I don't care), but that was blatantly a cheap and uncalled for shot.

- Brickboy240

SLCDave · 06-21-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brickboy240

Mccais war hero status is wearing a bit thin with me...I am really growing to detest this man.

I am no fan of Mormonism...I don't think I am going to hell for drinking caffinated coffee for petes sake (you're entitled to believe so...I don't care), but that was blatantly a cheap and uncalled for shot.

- Brickboy240

I'm Mormon, and I don't think you're going to hell for drinking coffee either, FWIW.

I can think of several other reasons you are going there, though... (I kid! I kid!)

**DanTheEldest** · 06-21-2007, 01:34 PM

The McCainiac in a nutshell: fine soldier in his day, lousy senator, terrible Republican, angry old man. His campaign is officially going down the drain and he's flailing for anything to give him an edge.

killrrabit · 06-21-2007, 03:32 PM

I'm LDS too. I am personally getting sick and tired of all this crap in the media. If you want to criticize an opponent due to his political views, go ahead. But criticizing someone’s religion is just inappropriate and insulting. For many, religion is a very personal and sacred thing. You might as well say that one’s religion is stupid, and follow it up with “and his wife is as ugly as a badger as well.” If these people making the criticizing statements are doing so because that is what they believe, then they shouldn’t be involved with the political agenda of a person whose sole duty is to uphold the Constitution. And if these statements are made in order to manipulate the public’s view of a candidate due to his personal beliefs, then the people making those statements are the epitome of what is wrong with the world.

As far as the Mormon stuff goes:
It is my opinion that a lot of people's (mis)understanding of our religion stems from their information sources. I mean, if only I had a quarter for every time I heard someone say, "well, my coworker told me this weird thing Mormons believe/do..." or "I have a friend who was Mormon and his family was weird." Guess what, some people are weird, and it may just be possible that your coworker doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. People have very skewed views on our religion, due to the fact that many people make assumptions based on erroneous statements or just plain repeat those statements in an ignorant game of 'telephone' where they progress to be something absurd. For example, whoever reads Brickboy240’s comment on “going to hell for drinking coffee,” may believe from that comment that Mormons believe you will go to hell for drinking coffee. We don’t. Going to hell for drinking coffee would be absurd.

And P.S.:
You show me someone who says we aren't Christians, and I'll show you an ignorant person who has never put more than 30 seconds into researching that opinion. The name of our church is The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints, for crying out loud. Our canon consists of the BIBLE (which last time I checked was all about Christ), and The Book of Mormon (which is subtitled ANOTHER TESTAMENT OF CHRIST). People who say that we aren’t Christians usually fall into the “I have no freaking idea what I’m talking about, and I just like to be irresponsibly judgmental because I am an ignorant human being and overall bad person,” crowd.

And P.P.S.
I love me XD40 SC.

Brickboy240 · 06-21-2007, 03:54 PM

Funny, but the media LOVED the fact that Leiberman was so devout in his Jewish faith, but Romney's Mormon activities are under scrutiny?

I don't care what religion he is or what he believes, spiritually. His stances on other issues and past voting record are reasons enough to not support the guy.

- Brickboy240

ArmyGuy45 · 06-21-2007, 04:50 PM

i mean.. i guess i can see where Mccain is coming from.. since your religion is what makes you up... everyone has a choosen faith.. its what that person believes in... and if that religion has ways that are not "normal" i guess that means that person will have non "normal" ways of running things...
i dont think im explaining this well

mgeoffriau · 06-21-2007, 06:11 PM

Sorry, but Mormons are not Christians. Simply believing something about Jesus Christ does not make you a Christian. Taking the Bible as one of your "sacred texts" does not make you a Christian (Muslims claim the Bible as a sacred text, and they certainly are not Christians).

Adding to or subtracting from the Holy Scriptures places you outside of the Christian church, and that is exactly what Joseph Smith did.

**Old School** · 06-21-2007, 06:23 PM

* Fred Thompson often fills in for Paul Harvey and Batman.
* Physicists say nothing can escape a black hole or Fred Thompson.
* Why does Iran want nukes? Fear of Fred Thompson.
* Though Fred Thompson left the Senate in 2003, Harry Reid still hasn't stopped wetting his pants.
* Only two things can kill Superman: Kryptonite and Fred Thompson.
* Every night, Osama checks under his bed for Fred Thompson.
* Fred Thompson is a prime number.
* Actual cause of global warming? Fred Thompson's burning rage.
* Fred Thompson appears human size because he is actually standing a million miles away.
* Not only does Fred Thompson cut taxes, he cuts tax collectors.

06-21-2007, 11:00 AM	#1
longtalltechsan XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,977	(PV) McCain takes shot at Romney's religion This was in the Boston Globe. Seems McCain isn't above doing anything to win. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...neys_religion/ Rival camps take aim at Romney's religion By Scott Helman, Globe Staff \| June 21, 2007 Gathering for their April meeting at the county courthouse, Republican activists from Warren County, Iowa, planned for this summer's county fair and vented about illegal immigration. And then the county chairman for Senator John McCain's presidential campaign, Chad Workman, made an unexpected digression: He took direct aim at Mitt Romney's religion, according to four people at the meeting. Workman questioned whether Mormons were Christians, discussed an article alleging that the Mormon Church helps fund Hamas, and likened the Mormons' treatment of women to the Taliban's, said participants, who requested anonymity to discuss the meeting freely. One participant summed up Workman's argument this way: "The fundamental flaw of Mitt Romney . . . was that he was Mormon, not because he thinks this way or that way on one issue." Workman did not return calls seeking comment. In a presidential race in which Romney's candidacy is testing the country's attitudes toward Mormonism, the comments by a McCain representative in Iowa are the latest of several instances of rival campaign operatives trying to bring Romney's faith onto the campaign playing field. Over the past year, staff or volunteers from at least three opposing campaigns have, at times subtly and at times not, spread negative information about Mormons in an apparent effort to damage Romney's bid for the presidency. McCain , of Arizona, and his campaign disavow attempts by supporters to highlight Romney's faith, and other campaigns have also resolutely rejected using religion as a weapon. But while the impact of the anti-Mormon messages is difficult to measure, the number of incidents suggests that Romney's religion will remain a tempting target for political opponents seeking a competitive edge. The most recent example came to light earlier this week when the Washington Post reported that Emma Nemecek, an Iowa field operative for Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas, had recently forwarded an e-mail to Iowa Republicans containing a number of criticisms of Mormonism, including a charge that it is not a Christian faith. The e-mail closed with a quote from a Founding Father, John Jay: "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." "This violated campaign policy," said Brownback spokesman Brian Hart. "The person that did it has apologized and been reprimanded, and Senator Brownback has disavowed . . . anything that would attack anyone's personal faith." The campaign of former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani was forced to make a similar apology this month after The New York Sun reported that Katie Harbath, Giuliani's deputy e-campaign director, had forwarded to a blogger a story in The Salt Lake Tribune linking Romney to an unofficial Mormon prophecy that a leader of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would one day save the Constitution. "Thought you'd find this interesting," Harbath wrote to the blogger, the Sun reported. A senior adviser to Giuliani, Tony Carbonetti, then issued a statement calling the e-mail "a regrettable mistake." "We extend our sincere apologies to Governor Romney and reaffirm our commitment to running a clean campaign," he said. The April meeting in Warren County is one of several instances in which a representative of McCain's campaign has tried to highlight Romney's membership in the Mormon Church. Last year, when Romney and McCain were battling to sign up supporters in key states, Romney's campaign got word that Chuck Larson, a former Iowa GOP chairman and now one of McCain's top Iowa advisers, had been calling Mormonism a "cult" while trying to woo state legislators and their staff. One Republican Larson approached, who would talk only on condition of anonymity, said that Larson told him, "He's a Mormon for crying out loud -- that's essentially a cult." When David Kochel, a senior Romney adviser in Iowa, learned of Larson's comments, he complained to Larson's business partners. Larson then called back to apologize, according to Kochel, who recounted Larson's apology this way: "David, I just want you to know that I made a joke about Governor Romney's religion. It is not the kind of thing I'm proud of, and it's not the kind of thing I will ever do again." Larson declined to comment. There have been other scattered instances of McCain representatives raising Romney's religion. Earlier this year, for example, The State newspaper in Columbia, S.C., reported that McCain operatives had distributed to reporters comments by evangelical leader James Dobson questioning whether a Mormon could win the presidency. Asked about such instances, Danny Diaz, a McCain spokesman, said in a statement: "On behalf of Senator McCain, we apologize for any comments made on the part of this campaign concerning Governor Romney's religion." McCain, in an interview Monday with Globe reporters and editors, said Romney's faith should play no role in the campaign. "I think it's a terrible thing, really, for us to judge someone on their religion," he said . Matt Rhoades, Romney's communications director, said such "attacks of religious bigotry . . . have no place in politics today." "The campaign accepts that Senator McCain has apologized, and we expect that he will work to ensure that these types of activities will not happen again," Rhoades said. "The American people are not interested in these types of personal attacks." Romney has faced repeated slights against his religion from other quarters as well. A Florida televangelist, Bill Keller, told followers recently that a vote for Romney is a vote for Satan. And a small group of worship ers from the Faith Christian Outreach Church in Mount Pleasant, Iowa, has been going door-to-door distributing a DVD that takes a critical look at the Mormon Church. "Our concern was simply that Mormonism has continued to try and pass itself off as a Christian religion, which it is not," said Monte Knudsen, senior pastor at the church, who insisted the effort was not aimed at hurting Romney's candidacy. There have been numerous anonymous attacks, too, such as an unsigned, eight-page screed that arrived last month in the mailboxes of influential South Carolina Republicans charging that Mormonism was a "politically dangerous" religion founded on a hoax. Sent from Providence, the mailing alleged that church members believe in multiple gods, likened its founder, Joseph Smith, to the Islamic prophet Mohammed, and raised alarm about future directives Mormons may be required to follow. Romney's detractors have also used e-mail to stir suspicions about his faith. One note sent to South Carolina voters warned of the "dark suspicions" about Mormonism, telling recipients to "trust your instincts" because "Mitt Romney has a family secret he doesn't want you to know," Salon, the online magazine, reported recently. The "secret" was the long-acknowledged fact that Romney has polygamous ancestors, Salon reported. "In some ways, [Romney's candidacy] is the best test of whether Americans have really put some of the old religious differences aside," said Alan Wolfe, director of the Boisi Center for Religion and American Public Life at Boston College. "And my guess is that they haven't." __________________ Gun owner's prayer.... "Oh Lord, if I die, please don't let my wife sell my guns for what I told her they cost."

06-21-2007, 12:10 PM	#3
Brickboy240 XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 9,853	Mccais war hero status is wearing a bit thin with me...I am really growing to detest this man. I am no fan of Mormonism...I don't think I am going to hell for drinking caffinated coffee for petes sake (you're entitled to believe so...I don't care), but that was blatantly a cheap and uncalled for shot. - Brickboy240 __________________ The top 25% of wage earners in America pay 86% of all federal income taxes collected. (according to 2007 IRS website data) Es mejor morir a pie que vivir arrodillado Volvo...the Swedish Brick!

06-21-2007, 01:34 PM	#5
DanTheEldest XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 6,499	The McCainiac in a nutshell: fine soldier in his day, lousy senator, terrible Republican, angry old man. His campaign is officially going down the drain and he's flailing for anything to give him an edge. __________________ The only things more disturbing than the base ideologies of the new President are the lengths to which his supporters and apologists will go to try to convince themselves and the rest of us that he's not exactly who he says he is. The American abortion industry: helping rid the tired, huddled masses of their inconveniences and mistakes for four decades now. (But it's okay--the unborn aren't actually humans. What they are, we're not sure--but they're definitely not people.)

06-21-2007, 03:32 PM	#6
killrrabit XDTalk Newbie Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 22	Mormon, here. I'm LDS too. I am personally getting sick and tired of all this crap in the media. If you want to criticize an opponent due to his political views, go ahead. But criticizing someone’s religion is just inappropriate and insulting. For many, religion is a very personal and sacred thing. You might as well say that one’s religion is stupid, and follow it up with “and his wife is as ugly as a badger as well.” If these people making the criticizing statements are doing so because that is what they believe, then they shouldn’t be involved with the political agenda of a person whose sole duty is to uphold the Constitution. And if these statements are made in order to manipulate the public’s view of a candidate due to his personal beliefs, then the people making those statements are the epitome of what is wrong with the world. As far as the Mormon stuff goes: It is my opinion that a lot of people's (mis)understanding of our religion stems from their information sources. I mean, if only I had a quarter for every time I heard someone say, "well, my coworker told me this weird thing Mormons believe/do..." or "I have a friend who was Mormon and his family was weird." Guess what, some people are weird, and it may just be possible that your coworker doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. People have very skewed views on our religion, due to the fact that many people make assumptions based on erroneous statements or just plain repeat those statements in an ignorant game of 'telephone' where they progress to be something absurd. For example, whoever reads Brickboy240’s comment on “going to hell for drinking coffee,” may believe from that comment that Mormons believe you will go to hell for drinking coffee. We don’t. Going to hell for drinking coffee would be absurd. And P.S.: You show me someone who says we aren't Christians, and I'll show you an ignorant person who has never put more than 30 seconds into researching that opinion. The name of our church is The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints, for crying out loud. Our canon consists of the BIBLE (which last time I checked was all about Christ), and The Book of Mormon (which is subtitled ANOTHER TESTAMENT OF CHRIST). People who say that we aren’t Christians usually fall into the “I have no freaking idea what I’m talking about, and I just like to be irresponsibly judgmental because I am an ignorant human being and overall bad person,” crowd. And P.P.S. I love me XD40 SC.

06-21-2007, 03:54 PM	#7
Brickboy240 XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 9,853	Funny, but the media LOVED the fact that Leiberman was so devout in his Jewish faith, but Romney's Mormon activities are under scrutiny? I don't care what religion he is or what he believes, spiritually. His stances on other issues and past voting record are reasons enough to not support the guy. - Brickboy240 __________________ The top 25% of wage earners in America pay 86% of all federal income taxes collected. (according to 2007 IRS website data) Es mejor morir a pie que vivir arrodillado Volvo...the Swedish Brick!

06-21-2007, 11:09 AM	#2
XDinNC XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,120	Just like your sig line says, just because McCain has a big mouth.... I wish he would just go ahead and join the party he really belongs to - the Communist party. He's one free-speech hating SOB!

06-21-2007, 04:50 PM	#8
ArmyGuy45 XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Mesa,AZ / Ft Carson, CO Posts: 3,448	i mean.. i guess i can see where Mccain is coming from.. since your religion is what makes you up... everyone has a choosen faith.. its what that person believes in... and if that religion has ways that are not "normal" i guess that means that person will have non "normal" ways of running things... i dont think im explaining this well __________________ US Army 2005 - Present XD45 Compact - My Carry Suresights Springer Precision Trigger Kit/Bar ( needs install ) NRA Life Member Myspace Im a minority in this right handed left winged bull legged pigeon toe world.

06-21-2007, 06:11 PM	#9
mgeoffriau XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jackson, MS Posts: 1,200	Sorry, but Mormons are not Christians. Simply believing something about Jesus Christ does not make you a Christian. Taking the Bible as one of your "sacred texts" does not make you a Christian (Muslims claim the Bible as a sacred text, and they certainly are not Christians). Adding to or subtracting from the Holy Scriptures places you outside of the Christian church, and that is exactly what Joseph Smith did. __________________ I felt early on I wasn't going to be a respectable citizen. -- Cormac McCarthy We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed.

06-21-2007, 06:23 PM	#10
Old School XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 7,675	* Fred Thompson often fills in for Paul Harvey and Batman. * Physicists say nothing can escape a black hole or Fred Thompson. * Why does Iran want nukes? Fear of Fred Thompson. * Though Fred Thompson left the Senate in 2003, Harry Reid still hasn't stopped wetting his pants. * Only two things can kill Superman: Kryptonite and Fred Thompson. * Every night, Osama checks under his bed for Fred Thompson. * Fred Thompson is a prime number. * Actual cause of global warming? Fred Thompson's burning rage. * Fred Thompson appears human size because he is actually standing a million miles away. * Not only does Fred Thompson cut taxes, he cuts tax collectors. __________________ Visit www.pistolgear.com for all of your XD needs!

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