Who should own guns? should there be background checks?

[jednp]

Originally Posted by XD Springer

If you're not a legal "resident alien," you're not permitted to purchase a firearm.

Your'e not permitted to purchase a handgun in another state, period.

Cho Seung Hui was a residen't alien, purchased the handgun in his resident state. He violated firearms laws when he filed off the serial numbers on his guns. Violated the gun policies of Virginia Tech. Violated felony assault and murder laws.

The laws don't seem to stop whackos.

laws won't stop anyone from doing something if they choose to do it.. I agree.

laws didn't stop him from filing off the serial #, from murder, from violating the no guns policy.

The arson, and stalking is what is getting to me. do you agree, or do you disagree that someone with stalking complaints against them... recent complaints.. should be red flagged for legal purchase until the case is reviewed to see if they are a threat or not?

I fully understand that someone can go purchase a gun illegally... first off.. I wouldn't have a clue where to look to get one illegally.. not everyone can easily pick up a gun on the streets.. I don't know a single person who would sell me a gun illegally. so without buying from a dealer.. I'd have a hard time getting a gun.. because I know of nobody who would sell one illegally to me.

Perhaps denying him purchase.. would have only slowed down the massacre for another month or so... I just really feel like there were things about him.. that could have been used to deny him purchase.. things that if done properly, wouldn't affect any of us good people.

[jnclement]

You can't legislate crazy. And you can't predict it, any more than you can predict a tornado. Statistics are going to tell you that after a certain number of .......anything, a flawed one is going to kick out, be it mechanical, or human. Cho passed a background check. As always in school shootings, signs were there, and everyone ignored them. There was an expert author on school shootings on CNN last night, when a small amount of rational thought was still occurring, who said to ignore this, can't be stopped. We can save several orders of magnitude of more students by a national bicycle helmet law. When you make people defenseless, bad things can happen. And it could have been worse without a gun. He could have chained doors, and started a fire.

Jednp, 80 million people didn't kill anyone with their guns yesterday. Don't go to the dark side. No system is perfect, and this won't change by an emotional reaction to this event.

[Gator]

Originally Posted by jednp

I know this... you cannot control the free will of a person. I've passed about 6 background checks in the last year.. I could walk outside and kill someone right now if I was so inclined to do so.

What I'm talking about is when you KNOW someone is doing something.. ie: stalking.. but not convicted of it.. if you have proof that it's going on.. it's been documented by police.. should that be a reason? at least a reason to look into the case a little deeper and put a temporary halt on the gun purchase until they check into things more?

If you were accused of stalking 3 years ago.. I don't want it used against you.. but if you were accused last month.. and there's proof of it.. could it be a good idea to use it against the person?

I'm just tossing out ideas here.. again, I don't know what is right or wrong.. we don't need more gun control.. but we do need something to throw up red flags for certain behaviors that are dangerous.. don't you think?

I mean seriously.. if I walk into a gun store tomorrow.. talk to the guy at the desk about how I enjoy following women around and spying on them.. following them home from work, trying to watch them through their windows.. then I tell him I want to purchase a gun.. I guarantee you that nearly every dealer will tell you to get lost.

Shouldn't there be a way for dealers to know about recent stalking or other dangerous reports which have proof to them.. about you?

jednp,
I feel what your saying , it would be nice to have a "don't sell this M.F. a gun" 911 hotline. we all know someone who has or want's a gun that might not pass our criteria, but will pass a NCIS check. I personally have witnessed a straw purchase at gun show that I narked about

[jednp]

Originally Posted by jnclement

You can't legislate crazy. And you can't predict it, any more than you can predict a tornado. Statistics are going to tell you that after a certain number of .......anything, a flawed one is going to kick out, be it mechanical, or human. Cho passed a background check. As always in school shootings, signs were there, and everyone ignored them. There was an expert author on school shootings on CNN last night, when a small amount of rational thought was still occurring, who said to ignore this, can't be stopped. We can save several orders of magnitude of more students by a national bicycle helmet law. When you make people defenseless, bad things can happen. And it could have been worse without a gun. He could have chained doors, and started a fire.

Jednp, 80 million people didn't kill anyone with their guns yesterday. Don't go to the dark side. No system is perfect, and this won't change by an emotional reaction to this event.

I'm not going to the dark side. You don't have to worry about that. I'm just coming from the position of someone who has to go through a background check to purchase a handgun, vs someone who didn't have to.

what types of things do a background check need to look for? that's kind of what I'm getting at.

We all fear certain people owning guns.. but we all fear being told ourself that we can't own one for something. Is there a middle ground, or is there not? I'm leaning more toward the not.. because I think the system would be abused.

I just wish there was some way that when someone has been reported of stalking several times, reported of arson.. that it could be used against them, and the system have no effect on people who aren't a current known threat.. with recent reason to believe they are currently a threat.

[jednp]

Originally Posted by Gator

jednp,
I feel what your saying , it would be nice to have a "don't sell this M.F. a gun" 911 hotline. we all know someone who has or want's a gun that might not pass our criteria, but will pass a NCIS check. I personally have witnessed a straw purchase at gun show that I narked about

that brings up my point though.. should recent stalking reports be part of the NCIS or any other background check? just how someone who has a restraining order filed against them isn't suppose to be able to purchase a gun here.

In no way do I want anything to be a pain in the butt for good gun owners.. obviously, if you don't stalk people.. you have no problem. but stalking is a serious and dangerous thing that quite often turns violent.

I do NOT want every piece of history you have, to be on record for the NCIS. I'm just talking about recent things that meet certain criteria to post a real threat.. should it be included for the NCIS? have a certain time period following an incident where it will make you unable to purchase?

[jnclement]

Originally Posted by jednp

I'm just coming from the position of someone who has to go through a background check to purchase a handgun, vs someone who didn't have to.

what types of things do a background check need to look for? that's kind of what I'm getting at.

Cho went thru an NCIS and Virginia State Police background check prior to the purchase. But he had an edge. He was frickin' crazy!! You can't rationalize irrational behavior. It's intellectual arrogance to think you can predict, explain, or prevent a madman.

And stalking reports are not arrests or convictions. Are we going to sacrifice our time honored justice system too? Just because it's not perfect?

[Majk]

jednp, just because you have your handgun permit, doesn't mean your a san person 3 years later, now does it?

[jednp]

Originally Posted by Majk

jednp, just because you have your handgun permit, doesn't mean your a san person 3 years later, now does it?

it doesn't.. I agree. that's why I put a few posts ago, that I have no clue if when things change about you.. do they make you hand in the permit.. do the dealers have to enter the permit into something to see if it's still valid? If not, then 3 years later it's useless.

[jednp]

Originally Posted by jnclement

Cho went thru an NCIS and Virginia State Police background check prior to the purchase. But he had an edge. He was frickin' crazy!! You can't rationalize irrational behavior. It's intellectual arrogance to think you can predict, explain, or prevent a madman.

And stalking reports are not arrests or convictions. Are we going to sacrifice our time honored justice system too? Just because it's not perfect?

Well.. if he went through the NCIS and Virginia state police background check.. then I am completely mistaken. Every report I've heard has said there are no background checks to purchase a handgun in Virginia. They said he went in with the money, and came out with a gun.. that simple.

You say stalking reports are not arrests or convictions.. ok.. I'll give you that. But.. what IF this guy had been arrested, but not convicted for stalking lets say.. maybe last month.. maybe 2 weeks ago? should that be reason to deny him?

And I also agree that you cannot predict, explain, a mad man.

All I'm saying.. is.. should there be certain things about someone that throws up red flags to temporarily deny a purchase, until the matter can be looked into deeper? Only certain things.. like stalking, death threats.. to see if there is credible evidence to provide a reason to deny the purchase.

I'm not saying i AGREE OR DISAGREE with any of the things I'm talking about.. I'm simply stirring debate.

[hellagerms]

I would not be wholly against the idea of only CCW holders being able to own weapons. Because all felonies and certian misdermeanors should preclude those who attempt to gain access to firearms IMO.

I do understand that there are some gun owners here who can't get a CCW for whatever reason. Perhaps an appeal process for those who can't obtain a CCW...