JURY DUTY! Long post. I recommend reading. - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

LUVMYSIGP225 · 04-02-2007, 03:40 PM

Well, about a month ago, I came on here and complained that I got called for Jury Duty, and also complained that I would figure out a way to get out of it. I GOT TOTALLY FLAMED BY A BUNCH OF YOU. Some of you gave me the old "civic duty" lecture. Some of you nearly called me non-american. Many of you stated that if I were the on on trial, I would want a good jury to report to hear my case. And, some of you even said that it could be a gun self-defense trial, and the guy could need my help. Well, I did my duty, and reported for service. With all the people that I knew that report and never get picked, I figured I would get called and let go. NOT SO!!! NOT MY LUCK!!

The case is over, so I can finally talk about this. I have been dying to pop off an email about this to you guys for the past week, but I had to keep my mouth shut, due to the law. Now that it is finally over, here goes.

THEY PICKED ME! DOH! Conspiracy and Complicity to commit Attempted murder with a Concealed Weapon charge. In jury selection, it came out that I was a gun owner with a CHL license. The prosecutor somehow knew this. Probably a background check of all jurors. By the way, our elected prosecutor is a liberal, democrat female. I felt like a criminal when she grilled me about carrying a gun. I was sure that she would let me go. I was hoping to head back to work. Well, not so. She wanted me on the case for some reason. Seems like defense wanted me, also. It was a long trial, and it would take forever to list the details here. However, several of the key points of the trial that I have been dying to relate to you guys was......GET THIS.......it will make you think about how your actions and possession could be perceived if you are ever tried....

The defendent bought a revolver to a kill a person. The prosecutor argued that the revolver was chosen because it did not leave shell casings behind. She felt that the simple fact of it being a revolver indicated a desire to cover up evidence by not leaving shell casings. Boy, that got me thinking!!!

The guy, when arrested, was in possession of a tacti-cool looking 2.5 inch knife with the fancy plastic handle. Not illegal in Ohio, but definitely construed by the rest of the female jurors as a deadly weapon because of appearance.

The guy owned a knife collection. Nothing that most of us wouldn't own. The fact that he had this collection was submitted as evidence that he had a propensity for deadly weapons. Gee, sounds like a normal guy to me.

A witness was a military collector, specifically World War II. The Defense tried to ruin his credibility by asking him if any of the weapons he collects are "NAZI". The defense totally eluded that because you may own a Mauser or a German flag that grandpa brought back from the war, that you are a neo-Nazi.

Female jurors DWELLED on this stuff. They were totally fooled by the appearance of a knife with a tactical look and a serrated blade. Perception is a real bitch people!

Fortunately, I didn't really have to deliberate many of these points. What the guy did was proven through other evidence, and it was a closed case.

It makes me think a little bit now that I have experienced a jury deliberation first hand.

jednp · 04-02-2007, 03:45 PM

so... was the guy convicted, or aquitted? and either way, was it the right verdict? Did this guy purposely kill someone?

I'm curious to hear just a tiny bit about how anyone tried to argue any of the points you made to them regarding the knife collection, etc.

Broadside · 04-02-2007, 03:48 PM

Good post. What details did they convict him on? What was the jury breakdown male/female? How long did you deliberate on the case? Why did the guy buy a revolver was it cheaper then a semi auto? Did he discharge or shoot the weapon at the intended victim?

Being part of the justice system is an eye opener.

LUVMYSIGP225 · 04-02-2007, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jednp

so... was the guy convicted, or aquitted? and either way, was it the right verdict? Did this guy purposely kill someone?

I'm curious to hear just a tiny bit about how anyone tried to argue any of the points you made to them regarding the knife collection, etc.

He was convicted on all three counts. He tried to kill someone. He contacted a "hit man" to help do it. The Hit man turned out to be an undercover cop. Recorded evidence is very damning. Especially, when the defendant doesn't deny that he said the stuff that we heard on the tapes. He says he was "joking". It was definitely the right verdict.

Oh, by the way, the concealed carry charge took longer to deliberate than the attempted murder charges.

LUVMYSIGP225 · 04-02-2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadside

Good post. What details did they convict him on? What was the jury breakdown male/female? How long did you deliberate on the case? Why did the guy buy a revolver was it cheaper then a semi auto? Did he discharge or shoot the weapon at the intended victim?

Being part of the justice system is an eye opener.

9 to 3. Women to men. I was one of three men.

They convicted him on audio evidence.

The weapon was never discharged. He was arrested with it on him. He did not buy it, he was a convicted felon. It was sold to him by a buddy.

Total time of deliberation was 2.5 hours for all three charges.

Broadside · 04-02-2007, 03:55 PM

Good to hear he is behind bars. People should know better then to hire a contract 99% of the time it's an under cover cop. Did they go after the guy who sold him the gun?

**DanTheEldest** · 04-02-2007, 04:02 PM

Thanks for posting, Luvy. It's stories like this that pound home the point that we need to get as many women interested in shooting as possible. The more converts we have to the "guns and knives aren't actually evil" camp, the easier it will be to dispell the misconceptions that plagued this trial about the nature of the weapons in question.

LUVMYSIGP225 · 04-02-2007, 04:12 PM

I would like to also interject something as equally important. I hate to get on this topic, but it is a topic of sterotyping and racism.

The defendent was a white male, total redneck looking guy with a pony tail who hung out with bikers. His best ally in that jury room was a black female juror from the inner city. She was the most open-minded, unbiased juror there. She was really trying hard to keep him innocent until proven guilty. His worst enemy in that jury room was a cute little soccer mom that was more worried about getting home early than deliberating. She made a comment about how long this was going to take to deliberate, because she wanted a half day off work. Three of the snooty white women had this guy pegged for quilty based on his gritty appearance. The black lady says "there is a man out there, a father of a young son that may never see him again for 20 years, and you are worried about getting home. WE HAVE THE TIME TO GIVE THIS GUY OUR BEST SHOT AT WEIGHING THE EVIDENCE AGAINST HIM! YOU HAVE THE TIME!"

I was impressed. You never know who will take your side and who won't. I am not saying that I expected any less from her, but I am saying that it would be easier for her to hate a person that looked like this guy than everyone else there.

KarolinaKid · 04-02-2007, 04:35 PM

Wow. That was worth the read. I think your experience, however painful it was, turned out very enlightening and beneficial for you and all the rest of us. Thanks for going and thanks for sharing. We would not have had all that perspective without you. Chalk one up for the 2A'ers!

D_Fence · 04-02-2007, 04:50 PM

See, it isn't so crazy when some of us bring up topics
concerning how our choices might be construed in court. It doesn't mean one thing will hang you, but it can be used to "paint a picture".

04-02-2007, 03:40 PM	#1
LUVMYSIGP225 XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Crackron, Ohio Posts: 5,582	JURY DUTY! Long post. I recommend reading. Well, about a month ago, I came on here and complained that I got called for Jury Duty, and also complained that I would figure out a way to get out of it. I GOT TOTALLY FLAMED BY A BUNCH OF YOU. Some of you gave me the old "civic duty" lecture. Some of you nearly called me non-american. Many of you stated that if I were the on on trial, I would want a good jury to report to hear my case. And, some of you even said that it could be a gun self-defense trial, and the guy could need my help. Well, I did my duty, and reported for service. With all the people that I knew that report and never get picked, I figured I would get called and let go. NOT SO!!! NOT MY LUCK!! The case is over, so I can finally talk about this. I have been dying to pop off an email about this to you guys for the past week, but I had to keep my mouth shut, due to the law. Now that it is finally over, here goes. THEY PICKED ME! DOH! Conspiracy and Complicity to commit Attempted murder with a Concealed Weapon charge. In jury selection, it came out that I was a gun owner with a CHL license. The prosecutor somehow knew this. Probably a background check of all jurors. By the way, our elected prosecutor is a liberal, democrat female. I felt like a criminal when she grilled me about carrying a gun. I was sure that she would let me go. I was hoping to head back to work. Well, not so. She wanted me on the case for some reason. Seems like defense wanted me, also. It was a long trial, and it would take forever to list the details here. However, several of the key points of the trial that I have been dying to relate to you guys was......GET THIS.......it will make you think about how your actions and possession could be perceived if you are ever tried.... The defendent bought a revolver to a kill a person. The prosecutor argued that the revolver was chosen because it did not leave shell casings behind. She felt that the simple fact of it being a revolver indicated a desire to cover up evidence by not leaving shell casings. Boy, that got me thinking!!! The guy, when arrested, was in possession of a tacti-cool looking 2.5 inch knife with the fancy plastic handle. Not illegal in Ohio, but definitely construed by the rest of the female jurors as a deadly weapon because of appearance. The guy owned a knife collection. Nothing that most of us wouldn't own. The fact that he had this collection was submitted as evidence that he had a propensity for deadly weapons. Gee, sounds like a normal guy to me. A witness was a military collector, specifically World War II. The Defense tried to ruin his credibility by asking him if any of the weapons he collects are "NAZI". The defense totally eluded that because you may own a Mauser or a German flag that grandpa brought back from the war, that you are a neo-Nazi. Female jurors DWELLED on this stuff. They were totally fooled by the appearance of a knife with a tactical look and a serrated blade. Perception is a real bitch people! Fortunately, I didn't really have to deliberate many of these points. What the guy did was proven through other evidence, and it was a closed case. It makes me think a little bit now that I have experienced a jury deliberation first hand. __________________ "The hippies got high, and the hippies are dead. I went hunting, and I am still Ted." - The Nuge, 2006.

04-02-2007, 03:48 PM	#3
Broadside XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,913	Good post. What details did they convict him on? What was the jury breakdown male/female? How long did you deliberate on the case? Why did the guy buy a revolver was it cheaper then a semi auto? Did he discharge or shoot the weapon at the intended victim? Being part of the justice system is an eye opener. __________________ XD - 9 Subcompact XD - 357 Service w/ SA Custom Carry Pro Pkg SA - Mil Spec 1911 A1

04-02-2007, 03:55 PM	#6
Broadside XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,913	Good to hear he is behind bars. People should know better then to hire a contract 99% of the time it's an under cover cop. Did they go after the guy who sold him the gun? __________________ XD - 9 Subcompact XD - 357 Service w/ SA Custom Carry Pro Pkg SA - Mil Spec 1911 A1

04-02-2007, 04:02 PM	#7
DanTheEldest XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 6,374	Thanks for posting, Luvy. It's stories like this that pound home the point that we need to get as many women interested in shooting as possible. The more converts we have to the "guns and knives aren't actually evil" camp, the easier it will be to dispell the misconceptions that plagued this trial about the nature of the weapons in question. __________________ To make mass murder palatable to the public, one must first strip the victims of their inherent humanity. First were the native Americans ("savages"), then the black slaves (only "partly human"), then the Jews and gypsies in Hitler's Europe ("parasites on society"), and now America's unborn (also "not fully human"). Save the Americans--end abortion now. Insights and documentation on our nation's Christian heritage: www.WallBuilders.com

04-02-2007, 04:12 PM	#8
LUVMYSIGP225 XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Crackron, Ohio Posts: 5,582	I would like to also interject something as equally important. I hate to get on this topic, but it is a topic of sterotyping and racism. The defendent was a white male, total redneck looking guy with a pony tail who hung out with bikers. His best ally in that jury room was a black female juror from the inner city. She was the most open-minded, unbiased juror there. She was really trying hard to keep him innocent until proven guilty. His worst enemy in that jury room was a cute little soccer mom that was more worried about getting home early than deliberating. She made a comment about how long this was going to take to deliberate, because she wanted a half day off work. Three of the snooty white women had this guy pegged for quilty based on his gritty appearance. The black lady says "there is a man out there, a father of a young son that may never see him again for 20 years, and you are worried about getting home. WE HAVE THE TIME TO GIVE THIS GUY OUR BEST SHOT AT WEIGHING THE EVIDENCE AGAINST HIM! YOU HAVE THE TIME!" I was impressed. You never know who will take your side and who won't. I am not saying that I expected any less from her, but I am saying that it would be easier for her to hate a person that looked like this guy than everyone else there. __________________ "The hippies got high, and the hippies are dead. I went hunting, and I am still Ted." - The Nuge, 2006.

04-02-2007, 03:45 PM	#2
jednp XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 4,691	so... was the guy convicted, or aquitted? and either way, was it the right verdict? Did this guy purposely kill someone? I'm curious to hear just a tiny bit about how anyone tried to argue any of the points you made to them regarding the knife collection, etc.

04-02-2007, 04:35 PM	#9
KarolinaKid XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: TN (In my mind I'm goin' to Carolina...) Posts: 1,067	Wow. That was worth the read. I think your experience, however painful it was, turned out very enlightening and beneficial for you and all the rest of us. Thanks for going and thanks for sharing. We would not have had all that perspective without you. Chalk one up for the 2A'ers! __________________ The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. - Sir George Bernard Shaw

04-02-2007, 04:50 PM	#10
D_Fence XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 1,204	See, it isn't so crazy when some of us bring up topics concerning how our choices might be construed in court. It doesn't mean one thing will hang you, but it can be used to "paint a picture".

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