Intruder in our house - what would you have done?

[astral]

Originally Posted by nofearfactor

well.I think its obvious I'm not a cop.But,I have shot guns all of my life(31 years).Mostly at targets,a few small animals when I was younger,etc.The squirrels and rabbits tho never broke into my house and robbed me,nor I dont think Ive ever had a target try to flee from me yet.When it does,I will question my Dr Pepper usuage.NO,I do not have military or SWAT training or been to the police academy or even CLEET.I have my CC permit in Oklahoma is about it,and Ive been to the marksmanship classes at my range,and others.My father did what he could do with me,as did my policemen grandfathers when I was young.What other kind of training then could I,just a regular Joe/citizen/taxpayer possibly have had then smartass?TV shows and movies?I know the difference in fiction and reality.Derrrr.But,theres alot of talktalktalk in class,in these forums,with friends and relatives about what-to-do,what-not-to-do,etcetc,blahblahblah.When it comes down to it,isnt any situation going to be different?

The things I do know are:
1-I'm not God(I'm not a Christian but I live in America and alot of people are,so I will use 'God' here);I dont feel that I have the right to take a life if my own life isnt threatened.But threaten my life and I will surely defend mine,with as much force as I have to.And I will kill if I have to,I have no problems with that.But if I dont have to,and in a situation such as someone in my home stealing my stuff,and if I am not threatened with my life,and he tries to flee, am I going to shoot him to stop him?The problem I have with this is why do I have to shoot him in a vital area just to keep him there?I do keep JHPs here at home for HD and I shoot FMJs at the range and I do know the difference in my ammo.
2-So,NO shot to the wall for warning that I do mean business and I am calling the police and they will be here soon so dont move?
3-So,NO shot to the legs when he does try to flee to warn him to stay put and wait for the police?
4-So,youre telling me I have to let him run if he tries to flee?Just call the police and report it and hope they catch him?Meanwhile he has my cellphone/creditcards/maybe one of my guns in his pockets?
5-All the while during 2,3,4 this man has not threatened my life,is just in my home unauthorized stealing my stuff.I have to POINT the gun at him(which in my LIMITED training I have always been taught that if I am ever going to point a gun at someone I better be ready to use it.It is a felony to even point a gun at someone and I could lose my CC permit if I do?unless detaining a burglary suspect in my home negates the liability I would be under?),tell him to sit there and wait while I call 911,or try to perform a 'felony arrest takedown',and wait for the cops.Or shoot him in a vital area(apparently not a leg...) and kill him for being there?
6-I'm 5'10" 250 and not that fat and Ive boxed professionally and had martial arts training my whole life and I could probably detain someone even without a gun,but he may have a gun in his pocket or knife and that would be foolish.
6-So,Mr Expert(whoever wants just put their name here),what do I do?He's not getting away from me if I do catch him in my home,period.Gaurenteed.He is going to wait for the cops and I am going to make sure he gets charged for breaking into my home and stealing my stuff.I just stated the things I would do to detain a person.Apparently the things I would do are stupid.Merely warning him with a warning shot not to move OR ELSE,or injuring him instead of killing him is not enough.Not being a TRAINED military/police/SWAT/CLEET/etc trained person.Just a citizen with an intruder in my home stealing my identity materials/phone/gun,etc.So,since it is legal to go ahead and kill this dude in Oklahoma according to our "Make my day law", because he is in my home unathorized,I should then instead of warning him or wounding him.I am in the clear then?Not gonna get sued for giving him a heartattack when I shot the wall or shot him in his legs putting him in a wheelchair?I can just put his face in there with all of the insects and small animals Ive killed over the years and all of the cows,pigs,chickens and fish Ive eaten over the years?

I'm still confused.

When,and if,this situation ever happens,I will deal with it in my own way and suffer whatever consequences of my own actions.I am going to query every TRAINED person I know on this subject from now on and seek out as much knowledge as I can about this.I now have homework to do same as my kids.Thanx for helping to send me in the direction of doing the RIGHT thing according to TRAINED shooters.

Read this about Oklahomas "Make My Day Law".Its what started it all, nationwide-
http://www.oksenate.org/news/Nationa...m20041031.html

Now,Oklahoma is passing a new one,the "Stand Your Ground" bill-
http://www.oksenate.gov/news/press_r...20060425a.html

Ok, first of all I want to apologize if I came off as harsh in my original post. Let me address a couple of these issues. Oh, and it might be a little different where you live, I mostly know just Minnesota law.

Lets take your home invasion scenario. If you find an intruder in your home you can shoot them (if Oklahoma’s Make My Day Law is what I think it is). So right there and then you have to decide whether or not to take this person’s life. If they are clearly not endangering your life (or someone else’s) I would say at least from a moral perspective, you probably should not kill them. So lets play it out either way.

1. They are a threat to your life. They have a knife for example, and take a step toward you. This is an obvious deadly force situation and you should shoot to kill. Where do you shoot? Center mass. It has the highest percent chance of killing them other than shooting them in the head. The reason I would not shoot for the head is because this would be one of the most stressful situations in your life (I hope anyway), and it is proven that high stress causes you to lose some motor function as well as some other minor things which will affect your aim. Center mass is the largest part of a body to aim at and gives you the best chance of a hit. If you shoot, shoot to kill and shoot until there is no longer a threat.

OR

2. The intruder is not an immediate threat. If you have your firearm, it should still be drawn and aimed at the intruder. Yes you should be ready to use it, but no you don’t have to, and it is not a felony in this situation. The reason you are aiming at this person who is not a threat to your life is because they could easily become a threat to your life at any second. It is a dangerous situation, and it makes sense to have them at gunpoint. At this time you can either order the suspect to the ground, or order them to leave your house. You should be calling 911 if you haven’t already. It is legal to make an arrest, or physically detain them somehow (with handcuffs or rope for example), but I would not advise it. It is only bringing them closer to your gun, and bringing you closer to any weapon they might have. Also, it takes police officers many hours of training, and a lot of experience to make arrests safely, and even then it is still dangerous to do it alone. So if you wish to detain them, I would advise keeping a distance and keeping your firearm drawn.

If at this point they attempt to run away, DO NOT SHOOT THEM. Even IF it is legal (and it might be in your state, I haven’t read the laws), they are not a threat to your life and taking theirs is not something that you should consider doing. Shooting for a limb is not an option. There are a couple of reasons for this. Even if you were completely relaxed and under no stress, it would be very difficult to hit a moving target much less a small moving target like an arm. If you miss you could easily kill them, or if you hit an artery they could be dead in a matter of seconds. Secondly shooting is considered deadly force. If you shoot at someone’s finger it is still considered deadly force, so under the law you might as well be shooting to kill. Also, if you shoot someone you are probably going to be sued. If you do successfully stop them from fleeing by hitting a limb, you are just opening yourself up for more liability. You can almost guarantee a lawsuit at that point, one that you are probably not going to win.

Warning shots. Don’t so it. First, I don’t know what the chances of it working is, but if someone shot in my direction I wouldn’t be sticking around to see why. I would be running if I wasn’t already. Second, again, I am not positive on your local laws, but I highly doubt this is legal. Shooting is using deadly force. In court it would probably be viewed the same as if you shot with the intention of hitting the suspect.

[astral]

When,and if,this situation ever happens,I will deal with it in my own way and suffer whatever consequences of my own actions.I am going to query every TRAINED person I know on this subject from now on and seek out as much knowledge as I can about this.I now have homework to do same as my kids.Thanx for helping to send me in the direction of doing the RIGHT thing according to TRAINED shooters.

You have the right idea here. Don’t just take my word for it. Read local laws, and talk to people who know about gun laws and cases that have set presidence. The only advice I would offer here is not to seek out “trained shooters” or firearm instructors. Even though they may be well trained in firearms, legal issues are another matter. What we are discussing is exactly that, legal issues.

(On a funny note I had to split this into two posts because the forums told me it was too long! That is a first for me, lol.)

[astral]

Oh, a couple of things I forgot to include: Shooting in a low light situation, what to do when the cops show up, and what will likely happen afterwords. I don't really feel like typing anymore, and these subjects have been widely covered elsewhere. If you have any questions though, please ask.

[LMTD]

I would draw but never allow the finger in the guard unless I felt the intruder was moving at me. I would also dial 911 and order the person to the ground. I would likely click the laser on him pointing it at his privates to increase his desire to comply.

Bear in mind that IMHO what I am doing at that time IS agressive and my body is freakin out on the dope the brain creates when you enter into such situations. If I put my finger into that guard, the trigger is getting pulled. Since the whole situation is one I can not adaquatly know my own reactions under stress, I must be cautioned in actions and follow the safety rules I have learned.

I do not want to kill anyone, nor face a situation where I fear for my life. That is why I made the investment in a quality pistol and training to go along with it. If the person had not seen me, 911 dialed and I would likely have retreated to a good observation point, weapon drawn and phone to ear with 911 while waiting.

[vikz]

i keep a reasonable distance 15 to 20 yds tell him to go face down and shut the heckup, call the police, if he make a move towards me then he just signed his papers,and yes i know if ever you have to use your gun you destroy the target!!!

[Requiem4Senses]

Originally Posted by vikz

i keep a reasonable distance 15 to 20 yds tell him to go face down and shut the heckup, call the police, if he make a move towards me then he just signed his papers,and yes i know if ever you have to use your gun you destroy the target!!!

Keep your distance for sure, but you're not likely going to get 15-20 yds in a house.

Also, bear in mind: Where there's one, there may be two, three, four, etc. Whether you draw down and slip away, keep your eyes peeled for more threats.

P.S. I'd probably draw down...