Intruder in our house - what would you have done?

[TeamFowler]

Originally Posted by ROFL XD

I always have my cell phone on me no matter what, and usually the XD except when I'm on campus (stupid university gun ban... my understanding is that it is in no way illegal, but you could still get kicked out of school... I need to transfer to the University of Utah).

About carrying on a college/university campus... i'm in a MBA program and all my classes are at night at an urban campus surrounded by public housing. I actually just had a class where a campus police officer was in my class. I asked them what the campus policy was and they said they DO have a 'no gun' policy. But then went on to say that state law overrides campus policy. Her thinking was it's my right to carry (I have a permit) and as long as I follow CCW rules, who's going to know. I got the feeling that they thought the policy was stupid and not really enforced. BTW, there are no 'No Gun' signs posted anywhere. So IMO, what's more important: protecting yourself or following some bogus campus policy?

[D_Fence]

The tricky part about holding someone at gunpoint is that using a gun to stop someone from fleeing is frowned upon, even with the most homeowner-friendly state laws. However, if you have no duty to retreat and are standing in front of the only exit, then he is going to have to move towards you to leave. If your well-being is a priority, that movement towards you can only be interpreted as aggression and would likely support a self-defense shooting. The tricky part is if he doesn't have to move towards you to flee. Or, what do you do if you have ordered him to stand still and then he tries to flee away from you, but still in the house.

Someone said they would order the guy on the ground and perhaps even kick him. There are a few reasons why you woudln't want to do this, but the most important is that you would end up getting into a wrestling match and having your gun taken away. Distance is the friend of anybody that regularly spends time at the pistol range.

[D_Fence]

Originally Posted by TeamFowler

I actually just had a class where a campus police officer was in my class. I asked them what the campus policy was and they said they DO have a 'no gun' policy. But then went on to say that state law overrides campus policy. Her thinking was it's my right to carry (I have a permit) and as long as I follow CCW rules, who's going to know. I got the feeling that they thought the policy was stupid and not really enforced.

You are in PA, so I know that there is no law against CCW on a college campus. But, I don't see why the state law would "over-ride" a student code of conduct that includes a ban on weapons. In other words, you wouldn't get arrested, but it would likely be your last day as a student. A private college would have no trouble pursuing that course of action against you. It might be possible to argue that a college receiving tax-payer dollars can't enforce such a policy, buy you would be on suspension until the matter was resolved.

But, if you have to use the gun, then you have to use it. I'm sure you would rather be suspended from school than filling up space in a coffin.

There was just a report over the weekend about the already high crime-rate on and around the Ohio State campus getting even worse. But, per state-law, if your destination is the campus and you don't drive to school, you have to be unarmed as you walk or ride the bus to campus.

[VAXDGUY]

Originally Posted by ElJimmyStrappo

Actually, I am in the Academy right now. Yeah I am not a cop, yet. Are you an officer? If so, I am confident that you have more training than I and know more about your states laws than I do.

The suspect that we are talking about was in a building, and from what we know stole a number of items, therefore he is guilty of burglary. Tell me if I am wrong, but burglary is a felony. Therefore, I would take every step necessary to protect myself, family, property and get the perp taken care of.

No, from what you know NOW he's guilty of burglary. At the time you walked in you knew no such thing. For all you knew he walked in through an open front door.

[bkelm18]

All this banter back and forth over legalities is all well and good, but I doubt you're going to be thinking of all the legal ramifications of holding someone at gunpoint if you stumble upon someone in your home when you aren't expecting it.

[VAXDGUY]

Originally Posted by bkelm18

All this banter back and forth over legalities is all well and good, but I doubt you're going to be thinking of all the legal ramifications of holding someone at gunpoint if you stumble upon someone in your home when you aren't expecting it.

You'd better. That's one of the responsibilities (and burdens) of gun ownership, especially in hyper-litigious America.

[Deacon51]

Order him on the ground, arms stretched out in front, feet crossed. Have him put in cheek on the floor, facing away from you.
Say in a clear, commanding voice. "Do not move, or I will shoot you"

If you need him to move, in order to increase distance, or to give him room to spread out have him walk on his knees of belly craw.

Dial 911, DO NOT TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE GUY.

When you have 911 on the phone, first give your name and address, then tell them you are holding a man at gun point, tell them what you are wearing, and what the BG is wearing. Then, again, tell the bad guy, "Do not move of I will be forced to shoot." Say it load and clear, and make sure it gets recorded on the 911 tape.

Now, if the front door is locked, inform the dispatcher that the door is locked and you are the home owner and giver permission for them to force the door open. Do not hang up the phone... that 911 tape will be your defense in Cort / with the investigation.

IF the bg charges at you, shoot.

When the LEOs show up, inform them only that you where attacked and had to fire. DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ELSE. DO NOT attempt to tell them what happened. You will be in or near a state of shock, you perception of space and time will be off. You will not be able to provide the LEOs with accurate information. Do not let some aspiring DA use you and your confusion at the time of the shooting to advance his political career.
Just inform the officer that the BG was going to try and kill you and you shoot. (DO NOT SAY "I thought he was trying to kill me" or "He could have been trying to kill me", Say "HE was trying to kill me." If you show dought in your actions, you may go to jail.) That's it, end of the story until you get a lawyer. They may "take you down town" and that's fine. Don't let that scare you into messing up.

Look, I respect the cops, and I hope none of the LEOs here get offended by this, but they are not your friends, no matter how nice they seem. They have a job to do, and that's not to be your buddy. Don't trust them without a lawyer.

Now, don't trust your lawyer either. Do not let them talk you into trying to mislead the police or make a false statement.

[The Tengu]

Civilians may have the power to perform a citizen's arrest, but resisting a citizen's arrest is not a crime.

Civilians are not the police. They do not have the training, equipment, and the backup to handle **** when it hits the fan.

[goodformeto]

law or otherwise, I'd not feel justified over shooting anyone over "stuff." I'd probably draw, if he didn't stick around to wait for the cops I'd let him go. I just wouldn't tell him that. This is the one type of case where I'd draw without immidiate intent on pulling the trigger.

[nofearfactor]

Are you serious?!? Have you had any training with guns... ever? You NEVER fire warning shots, you NEVER shoot for the legs/arms

well.I think its obvious I'm not a cop.But,I have shot guns all of my life(31 years).Mostly at targets,a few small animals when I was younger,etc.The squirrels and rabbits tho never broke into my house and robbed me,nor I dont think Ive ever had a target try to flee from me yet.When it does,I will question my Dr Pepper usuage.NO,I do not have military or SWAT training or been to the police academy or even CLEET.I have my CC permit in Oklahoma is about it,and Ive been to the marksmanship classes at my range,and others.My father did what he could do with me,as did my policemen grandfathers when I was young.What other kind of training then could I,just a regular Joe/citizen/taxpayer possibly have had then smartass?TV shows and movies?I know the difference in fiction and reality.Derrrr.But,theres alot of talktalktalk in class,in these forums,with friends and relatives about what-to-do,what-not-to-do,etcetc,blahblahblah.When it comes down to it,isnt any situation going to be different?

The things I do know are:
1-I'm not God(I'm not a Christian but I live in America and alot of people are,so I will use 'God' here);I dont feel that I have the right to take a life if my own life isnt threatened.But threaten my life and I will surely defend mine,with as much force as I have to.And I will kill if I have to,I have no problems with that.But if I dont have to,and in a situation such as someone in my home stealing my stuff,and if I am not threatened with my life,and he tries to flee, am I going to shoot him to stop him?The problem I have with this is why do I have to shoot him in a vital area just to keep him there?I do keep JHPs here at home for HD and I shoot FMJs at the range and I do know the difference in my ammo.
2-So,NO shot to the wall for warning that I do mean business and I am calling the police and they will be here soon so dont move?
3-So,NO shot to the legs when he does try to flee to warn him to stay put and wait for the police?
4-So,youre telling me I have to let him run if he tries to flee?Just call the police and report it and hope they catch him?Meanwhile he has my cellphone/creditcards/maybe one of my guns in his pockets?
5-All the while during 2,3,4 this man has not threatened my life,is just in my home unauthorized stealing my stuff.I have to POINT the gun at him(which in my LIMITED training I have always been taught that if I am ever going to point a gun at someone I better be ready to use it.It is a felony to even point a gun at someone and I could lose my CC permit if I do?unless detaining a burglary suspect in my home negates the liability I would be under?),tell him to sit there and wait while I call 911,or try to perform a 'felony arrest takedown',and wait for the cops.Or shoot him in a vital area(apparently not a leg...) and kill him for being there?
6-I'm 5'10" 250 and not that fat and Ive boxed professionally and had martial arts training my whole life and I could probably detain someone even without a gun,but he may have a gun in his pocket or knife and that would be foolish.
6-So,Mr Expert(whoever wants just put their name here),what do I do?He's not getting away from me if I do catch him in my home,period.Gaurenteed.He is going to wait for the cops and I am going to make sure he gets charged for breaking into my home and stealing my stuff.I just stated the things I would do to detain a person.Apparently the things I would do are stupid.Merely warning him with a warning shot not to move OR ELSE,or injuring him instead of killing him is not enough.Not being a TRAINED military/police/SWAT/CLEET/etc trained person.Just a citizen with an intruder in my home stealing my identity materials/phone/gun,etc.So,since it is legal to go ahead and kill this dude in Oklahoma according to our "Make my day law", because he is in my home unathorized,I should then instead of warning him or wounding him.I am in the clear then?Not gonna get sued for giving him a heartattack when I shot the wall or shot him in his legs putting him in a wheelchair?I can just put his face in there with all of the insects and small animals Ive killed over the years and all of the cows,pigs,chickens and fish Ive eaten over the years?

I'm still confused.

When,and if,this situation ever happens,I will deal with it in my own way and suffer whatever consequences of my own actions.I am going to query every TRAINED person I know on this subject from now on and seek out as much knowledge as I can about this.I now have homework to do same as my kids.Thanx for helping to send me in the direction of doing the RIGHT thing according to TRAINED shooters.

Read this about Oklahomas "Make My Day Law".Its what started it all, nationwide-
http://www.oksenate.org/news/Nationa...m20041031.html

Now,Oklahoma is passing a new one,the "Stand Your Ground" bill-
http://www.oksenate.gov/news/press_r...20060425a.html