Take THAT Iran! - Page 5 - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

havoc1 · 03-31-2007, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newKid

Sig's comments were in jest. meant to stimulate conversation.if you knew him better you would know that. take a breath and chill. He is a stand up guy and would not seriously bash our troops like that, special forces or otherwise.

Thank goodness! My apologies. Ahh the internet.

**newKid** · 03-31-2007, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by havoc1

Thank goodness! My apologies. Ahh the internet.

indeed. indeed. the internet is a double-edged sword.

havoc1 · 03-31-2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastboy

LMAO, man.

Seriously, I think the Commie Chinese People's Liberation Army paratroop or the Russian Spetznaz are the only ones who can get the job done. These soldiers who are brought up and trained in an environment where human rights are at the bottom of the priority list have the ruthlessness to inflict total mayhem without hands tied. Just look at how the Russians deal with the rebels in Chechnya and the Chinese in their muslim Xinjiang province - no cute things like giving out chocolate or building basketball courts (which the middle easterners consider a gesture of weakness); they are there to cause destruction and death. They are the kind of soldier that the middle easterners understand and fear. We don't necessarily want the Chinese or the Russians to be our friends, but in situation like this, all the western militaries need do is to stand on the side line and applaud when these guys finish their job.

Reminds me of the South Korean White Tigers (707th Special Missions Bn) and some of the downright crazy stuff I've seen about SOF from the DPRK. They're not politically constrained even remotely as much as our guys--pretty ruthless if they need to be.

deepdiver · 03-31-2007, 08:16 AM

Had a Russian immigrant in my CCW class who used to be in the Russian Army. He was talking about after action reports with some of the former military guys in the class and pointed out that one of the primary differences he saw in the West's perspective vs the East's is that after a hostage rescue for example, the West's reports will end by stating "X number of hostages safe and uninjured" whereas the East's will end by saying "X number of enemy combatants neutralized". I don't have the knowledge to confirm or deny this assertion, however, the military guys in the class agreed with his perspective.

AKM · 03-31-2007, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newKid

Sig's comments were in jest.

Yeah, freaking hilarious.

.

AKM · 03-31-2007, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepdiver

Had a Russian immigrant in my CCW class who used to be in the Russian Army. He was talking about after action reports with some of the former military guys in the class and pointed out that one of the primary differences he saw in the West's perspective vs the East's is that after a hostage rescue for example, the West's reports will end by stating "X number of hostages safe and uninjured" whereas the East's will end by saying "X number of enemy combatants neutralized". I don't have the knowledge to confirm or deny this assertion, however, the military guys in the class agreed with his perspective.

Maybe our troops report the number of hostages rescued because their mission is to rescue the hostages. If you set your goal as rescuing the hostages, then neutralizine the hostiles becomes part of the requirement. But if you set killing the hostiles as your goal, you can do that by just bombing, burning, or gassing the building. The job gets alot easier when you can sort the hostages and hostiles as corpses.
.

deepdiver · 03-31-2007, 08:59 AM

Actually that is a good point and was part of their discussion. The Russian wasn't denigrating the West for their perspective on the sanctity of life ... he and the former military guys were primarily discussing the frustrations of the West's military people in not being able to do their jobs because of PC and diplomatic concerns. Part of the discussion also included the issue of at what point do you accept collateral damage in a hostage situation ... If they kill all the BGs and lose 10% of the hostages is that acceptable from the perspective of deterence to future BGs and is it worth the risk, etc. I found the conversation fascinating. Interesting moral dilemas for the men and women who protect our freedoms. It was a friendly discussion and exchange of perspectives and ideas.

fastboy · 03-31-2007, 09:31 AM

Yeah I remember a guy from China in my college class; whose one uncle was a veteran of China's war with the communist Vietnam. Said his uncle called the war a "meat grinding war;" casulties were no object, taking a bunker or stronghold was. Said the Chinese force would bombard the enemy defense with 130-154 mm artillary shells at the density of 70K to 80K rounds per square km within a hour, in order to prep the area for the infantry and armored units. Usually there was nothing much left, combatants or civilians, by the time the infantry and tank units moved in. It was eye opening to hear some of the war stories.

**beardman2** · 03-31-2007, 10:49 AM

there seems to be some growing US navy pressure in the area.

here is one example:http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/...SManeuvers_4th

I hope we leave it to the brits to handle. I don't mind backing them up though.

rev-arb · 03-31-2007, 10:56 AM

The UN is such a joke....like they really give a .... about anything that really matters.

03-31-2007, 10:49 AM	#49
beardman2 XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,950	there seems to be some growing US navy pressure in the area. here is one example:http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/...SManeuvers_4th I hope we leave it to the brits to handle. I don't mind backing them up though. __________________ - He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself. ~Thomas Paine I will not be involved with the dreams of angry men. Founding Documents Freedom isn't free: http://www.anysoldier.com

03-31-2007, 10:56 AM	#50
rev-arb XDTalk 10K Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: West River, South Dakota Posts: 12,982 Blog Entries: 3	The UN is such a joke....like they really give a .... about anything that really matters. __________________ You got to "post" before you can "TOTP!" Rom. 12:12 "The world has yet to see what God can do with and for and through and in a man who is fully and wholly consecrated to Him." - Henry Varley to DL Moody "I felt only as a man can feel who is roaming over the prairies of the far West, well armed, and mounted on a fleet and gallant steed." - Buffalo Bill

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03-31-2007, 08:16 AM	#44
deepdiver XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SE Missouri Posts: 1,585	Had a Russian immigrant in my CCW class who used to be in the Russian Army. He was talking about after action reports with some of the former military guys in the class and pointed out that one of the primary differences he saw in the West's perspective vs the East's is that after a hostage rescue for example, the West's reports will end by stating "X number of hostages safe and uninjured" whereas the East's will end by saying "X number of enemy combatants neutralized". I don't have the knowledge to confirm or deny this assertion, however, the military guys in the class agreed with his perspective.

03-31-2007, 08:59 AM	#47
deepdiver XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SE Missouri Posts: 1,585	Actually that is a good point and was part of their discussion. The Russian wasn't denigrating the West for their perspective on the sanctity of life ... he and the former military guys were primarily discussing the frustrations of the West's military people in not being able to do their jobs because of PC and diplomatic concerns. Part of the discussion also included the issue of at what point do you accept collateral damage in a hostage situation ... If they kill all the BGs and lose 10% of the hostages is that acceptable from the perspective of deterence to future BGs and is it worth the risk, etc. I found the conversation fascinating. Interesting moral dilemas for the men and women who protect our freedoms. It was a friendly discussion and exchange of perspectives and ideas.

03-31-2007, 09:31 AM	#48
fastboy XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MI Posts: 1,356	Yeah I remember a guy from China in my college class; whose one uncle was a veteran of China's war with the communist Vietnam. Said his uncle called the war a "meat grinding war;" casulties were no object, taking a bunker or stronghold was. Said the Chinese force would bombard the enemy defense with 130-154 mm artillary shells at the density of 70K to 80K rounds per square km within a hour, in order to prep the area for the infantry and armored units. Usually there was nothing much left, combatants or civilians, by the time the infantry and tank units moved in. It was eye opening to hear some of the war stories.