78% drop in number of Firarms Dealers? - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

Timmy44221 · 03-21-2007, 03:51 PM

Yes I relize this is from the VCP, but i think the numbers are infact true:

Quote:

[WASHINGTON, DC—The number of gun dealers in America has dropped by 190,726 since 1994 according to a new study released today by the Violence Policy Center (VPC). The study (see http://www.vpc.org/studies/dealers.pdf) found that the number of Type 1 Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs) plummeted 78 percent: from 245,628 in 1994 to 54,902 in 2005. (The Type 1 FFL is the basic federal license required to sell guns in America.)

Here for the VCP page on this.

That is one heck of a drop... I know this has happened localy, but there doesnt seem to be a huge push from gun owners to stop the ATF abuses.

**Majk** · 03-21-2007, 03:54 PM

I think it's more congress abuse. They pass so many laws that I wouldn't want to be one. You'd need three assistants just to make sure all the paperwork is square and two more to check the first ones work in case he or she screwed up.

And it's handy that allot of the gun laws can be interpeted about 12 different ways for the same law. Not for me. I'll just buy.

LUVMYSIGP225 · 03-21-2007, 04:02 PM

It is ATF abuse. They are shutting everyone down for clerical errors and other bull$hit. Talk about one agency that needs a good douching. ATF is the agency. The ATF needs reminded that once all of the legit dealers are gone and we are dealing underground, there will no longer be any use for them. All they are is pencil pushin' compliance inspectors.

**jnclement** · 03-21-2007, 04:03 PM

Probably true, but not really a new study. The ATF started a push after Waco to get rid of a lot of the semi-legal, semi-active garage and backyard shop dealers (like me). No big deal. I don't know why they think it matters. Gun dealers are down 78%, and firearms sales are up a huge percent over the same time period.

nickb · 03-21-2007, 04:06 PM

I know there is pressure on from regulators, but I have to wonder how much has to do with the internet sales. There are lots and lots of folks who won't pay a friggin' nickle more than they have to for anything. Even if it means inconvenience, waiting and total lack of support or service.

Is it very difficult to open a gun shop? If so, maybe the reduced number is just attrition due to normal retirement and such with no new stores opening. Big brother will get his way sooner or later. You may have the right to "keep and bear" arms, but you won't be able to find any or afford them if you do.

Kind of scary to think about it that way.

AKM · 03-21-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickb

Is it very difficult to open a gun shop?

Yes it is. Years ago a guy could get an FFL just to buy and sell as a hobby. Not any more. I wanted to open a gunsmith operation a few years ago and after looking through the tangled web of requirements I decided to forget it.
.

Timmy44221 · 03-21-2007, 04:36 PM

I know this isnt new information nessisarily, but it seems like somehting to fight against. I can think of one or two shops that are ver close by that have been shut down for clerical errors, and at least one that has been fighting it in court for over a year. I hope they dont have to close, they are my favorite gun shop.

Miguel · 03-21-2007, 04:45 PM

Why dp y'al think Walmart here stopped selling long guns? Yup, ATF!!

Krackels · 03-21-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUVMYSIGP225

It is ATF abuse. They are shutting everyone down for clerical errors and other bull$hit. Talk about one agency that needs a good douching. ATF is the agency. The ATF needs reminded that once all of the legit dealers are gone and we are dealing underground, there will no longer be any use for them. All they are is pencil pushin' compliance inspectors.

+1

Who'd want to be a gun dealer when they have to fear being raided without warrants, inventory confiscated with no promise of return, and not even have charges filed against you until they feel like it.

-1 for the ATF.

devilslayer · 03-21-2007, 08:41 PM

could it be just basic economics??? just like wal-mart killed roses ,sky city.ben franklin. bass pro ,gander mountain and other big name sporting goods stores are shutting down alot of smaller gun stores.

plus the OP stated the stats on FFL's that there were 54,902 in 2005. you dont think thats alot? it averages out to more then thousand per state..my state has 100 countys so if all FFL's were eveny dispursted that would give me ten in my neck of the woods. so with all those guys and internet stes like impact and cdnn i dont think theres a reason to worry......(now anyway

03-21-2007, 03:54 PM	#2
Majk XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Nebraska Posts: 2,641	I think it's more congress abuse. They pass so many laws that I wouldn't want to be one. You'd need three assistants just to make sure all the paperwork is square and two more to check the first ones work in case he or she screwed up. And it's handy that allot of the gun laws can be interpeted about 12 different ways for the same law. Not for me. I'll just buy. __________________ --------------------------------------------------------- majkthreads Psalm 28:7 "The Lord is my strength and shield; my heart trusts in Him, and I am helped."

03-21-2007, 04:02 PM	#3
LUVMYSIGP225 XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Crackron, Ohio Posts: 5,604	It is ATF abuse. They are shutting everyone down for clerical errors and other bull$hit. Talk about one agency that needs a good douching. ATF is the agency. The ATF needs reminded that once all of the legit dealers are gone and we are dealing underground, there will no longer be any use for them. All they are is pencil pushin' compliance inspectors. __________________ "The hippies got high, and the hippies are dead. I went hunting, and I am still Ted." - The Nuge, 2006.

03-21-2007, 04:06 PM	#5
nickb XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,345	I know there is pressure on from regulators, but I have to wonder how much has to do with the internet sales. There are lots and lots of folks who won't pay a friggin' nickle more than they have to for anything. Even if it means inconvenience, waiting and total lack of support or service. Is it very difficult to open a gun shop? If so, maybe the reduced number is just attrition due to normal retirement and such with no new stores opening. Big brother will get his way sooner or later. You may have the right to "keep and bear" arms, but you won't be able to find any or afford them if you do. Kind of scary to think about it that way. __________________ No PM sent..... But the average human can travel 21 feet in just about one second.

03-21-2007, 04:45 PM	#8
Miguel XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Katy, TX Posts: 1,869	Why dp y'al think Walmart here stopped selling long guns? Yup, ATF!! __________________ Miguel Enjoying my XD .45ACP Tactical. need to break in my 870, and my wife's XDSC9. I carry my XD45 ACP Tactical, in a SuperTuck from CB. Very comfortable, easy to hide, easy to draw, and easy to reholster. Looking for an HDR*, either an AR-180B, or Kel-Tec FBR. HDR, Homeland Defense Rifle

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03-21-2007, 04:03 PM	#4
jnclement XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Texas Posts: 2,500	Probably true, but not really a new study. The ATF started a push after Waco to get rid of a lot of the semi-legal, semi-active garage and backyard shop dealers (like me). No big deal. I don't know why they think it matters. Gun dealers are down 78%, and firearms sales are up a huge percent over the same time period.

03-21-2007, 04:36 PM	#7
Timmy44221 XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 797	I know this isnt new information nessisarily, but it seems like somehting to fight against. I can think of one or two shops that are ver close by that have been shut down for clerical errors, and at least one that has been fighting it in court for over a year. I hope they dont have to close, they are my favorite gun shop.

03-21-2007, 08:41 PM	#10
devilslayer XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,069	could it be just basic economics??? just like wal-mart killed roses ,sky city.ben franklin. bass pro ,gander mountain and other big name sporting goods stores are shutting down alot of smaller gun stores. plus the OP stated the stats on FFL's that there were 54,902 in 2005. you dont think thats alot? it averages out to more then thousand per state..my state has 100 countys so if all FFL's were eveny dispursted that would give me ten in my neck of the woods. so with all those guys and internet stes like impact and cdnn i dont think theres a reason to worry......(now anyway