This weeks look at Muslim Outrage

[nikon777]

Originally Posted by carcassxd

I assume you agree with the way Muslim men are taught to treat and degrade their women. Such a forward thinking liberal you are!

The status of women in Islam is often the target of attacks in the secular media. The ‘hijab’ or the Islamic dress is cited by many as an example of the ‘subjugation’ of women under Islamic law. Look at the status of women before Islam.

1. In the past women were degraded and used as objects of lust
The following examples from history amply illustrate the fact that the status of women in earlier civilizations was very low to the extent that they were denied basic human dignity:
2. Babylonian Civilization:
The women were degraded and were denied all rights under the Babylonian law. If a man murdered a woman, instead of him being punished, his wife was put to death.
3. Greek Civilization:
Greek Civilization is considered the most glorious of all ancient civilizations. Under this very ‘glorious’ system, women were deprived of all rights and were looked down upon. In Greek mythology, an ‘imaginary woman’ called ‘Pandora’ is the root cause of misfortune of human beings. The Greeks considered women to be subhuman and inferior to men. Though chastity of women was precious, and women were held in high esteem, the Greeks were later overwhelmed by ego and sexual perversions. Prostitution became a regular practice amongst all classes of Greek society.
4. Pre-Islamic Arabia:
Before Islam spread in Arabia, the Arabs looked down upon women and very often when a female child was born, she was buried alive.

Islam uplifted the status of women and granted them their just rights 1400 years ago. Islam expects women to maintain their status.
People usually only discuss ‘hijab’ in the context of women. However, in the Glorious Qur’an, Allah (swt) first mentions ‘hijab’ for men before ‘hijab’ for the women. The Qur’an mentions in Surah Noor:
"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do." [Al-Qur’an 24:30]



Hijab includes conduct and behaviour among other things
Complete ‘hijab’, also includes the moral conduct, behaviour, attitude and intention of the individual. A person only fulfilling the criteria of ‘hijab’ of the clothes is observing ‘hijab’ in a limited sense. ‘Hijab’ of the clothes should be accompanied by ‘hijab’ of the eyes, ‘hijab’ of the heart, ‘hijab’ of thought and ‘hijab’ of intention. It also includes the way a person walks, the way a person talks, the way he behaves, etc.
E. Capital punishment for the rapists
Under the Islamic shariah, a man convicted of having raped a woman, is given capital punishment. Many are astonished at this ‘harsh’ sentence. Some even say that Islam is a ruthless, barbaric religion! I have asked a simple question to hundreds of non-Muslim men. Suppose, God forbid, someone rapes your wife, your mother or your sister. You are made the judge and the rapist is brought in front of you. What punishment would you give him? All of them said they would put him to death. Some went to the extent of saying they would torture him to death. To them I ask, if someone rapes your wife or your mother you want to put him to death. But if the same crime is committed on somebody else’s wife or daughter you say capital punishment is barbaric. Why should there be double standards?
1. Western society falsely claims to have uplifted women
Western talk of women’s liberalization is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honour. Western society claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are mere tools in the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers, hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’. IE USING WOMEN TO SELL CARS AND GUNS.
2. USA has one of the highest rates of rape
United States of America is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries of the world. It also has one of the highest rates of rape in any country in the world. According to a FBI report, in the year 1990, every day on an average 1756 cases of rape were committed in U.S.A alone. Later another report said that on an average everyday 1900 cases of rapes are committed in USA. The year was not mentioned. May be it was 1992 or 1993.


Hijab does not degrade a woman but uplifts a woman and protects her modesty and chastity.

[carcassxd]

A. I am not religious

B. AFAIK, the KKK at this point do not plan to take over the world and kill or convert those who get in their way. I'd also be willing to bet the amount of "extreme Christians" in the world is a miniscule fraction and pales in comparison to the extreme muslim or "jihadist" movement. I havent heard about any kkk member sawing off a muslims head with a rusty knife because they didnt conform to their beliefs. I can pm you videos of Muslims practicing this act in the name of their god if you wish.

C. Do I agree with the message the kkk represent? No, they are idiots.

I would assume and hope that you are not one of the extremeists. Rather than attacking or mocking someone who points these things out it might be in your (and all other peaceful muslims) best interest to stand up and say "Hey! this is bull**** and these assholes are hijacking my religion!" instead of pointing your finger at christians. Like I said earlier, there is no global Christian movement (as far as i can tell) that seeks to destroy infidels and kill anyone who doesnt practice their archaic beliefs system.

my 2 cents.

Hijab does not degrade a woman but uplifts a woman and protects her modesty and chastity.

how about let the woman decide on that 1 eh?

ok, i guess you can justify anything if you really want to. at this point its pretty safe to say that you are beyond reason.

[nikon777]

Originally Posted by carcassxd

A. I am not religious

B. AFAIK, the KKK at this point do not plan to take over the world and kill or convert those who get in their way. I'd also be willing to bet the amount of "extreme Christians" in the world is a miniscule fraction and pales in comparison to the extreme muslim or "jihadist" movement. I havent heard about any kkk member sawing off a muslims head with a rusty knife because they didnt conform to their beliefs. I can pm you videos of Muslims practicing this act in the name of their god if you wish.

C. Do I agree with the message the kkk represent? No, they are idiots.

I would assume and hope that you are not one of the extremeists. Rather than attacking or mocking someone who points these things out it might be in your (and all other peaceful muslims) best interest to stand up and say "Hey! this is bull**** and these assholes are hijacking my religion!" instead of pointing your finger at christians. Like I said earlier, there is no global Christian movement (as far as i can tell) that seeks to destroy infidels and kill anyone who doesnt practice their archaic beliefs system.

my 2 cents.



how about let the woman decide on that 1 eh?

ok, i guess you can justify anything if you really want to. at this point its pretty safe to say that you are beyond reason.

" I havent heard about any kkk member sawing off a muslims head with a rusty knife because they didnt conform to their beliefs. "

Nope, they just hung a few blacks and Jews.


"Rather than attacking or mocking someone who points these things out it might be in your (and all other peaceful muslims) best interest to stand up and say "Hey! this is bull**** and these assholes are hijacking my religion!" instead of pointing your finger at christians."

Yet again u missed the point. i wasn't attacking christians in any way. i pointed out the fact that a group of people claiming a religion doesn't necessarily represent the true values and beliefs of that religion

"I'd also be willing to bet the amount of "extreme Christians" in the world is a miniscule fraction and pales in comparison to the extreme muslim or "jihadist" movement."

Id also be willing to bet the Crips and Bloods out number the local wanna' be gangs in my neighborhood also. Whats your point? Both are a nuisance.

"Rather than attacking or mocking someone who points these things out it might be in your (and all other peaceful muslims) best interest to stand up and say "Hey! this is bull**** and these assholes are hijacking my religion!" "

Again, you obviously haven't read my previous posts in this thread. As this is what I've been saying the whole thread.


"how about let the woman decide on that 1 eh? "

The woman is not held at gun point and told to cover. A woman makes a conscience effort to do so, and is following the command of her lord as written in the Quran.

"...who doesnt practice their archaic beliefs system."


Funny how this archaic belief system was giving rights to women over 1400 years ago, while other civilizations were still in the dark ages treating women like dogs. Again.....you apparently havent read my posts and/or never paid attention in history class.


" ok, i guess you can justify anything if you really want to. at this point its pretty safe to say that you are beyond reason."


Yeah, people are generally considered "beyond reason" to those on the losing end of a discussion.

[Brickboy240]

A friend of mine that is Muslim and immigrated to the USA from Kuwait (legally...during the Gulf War in 91) told me that a reason many Muslims do NOT speak out is the fact that they could very possibly become the target of the extremists by speaking out publicly.

This friend of mine is sickened by what the extremists do and has been the target of ill treatment, because he is of mid-east descent. Little do the people doing the mistreatment know, but my friend hated Saddam and supported the war/invasion more than I did. He does not want to chop anybody's head off...far from it. One of the most peaceful people I know, to be honest. He and his family are proud of their ancestry (as I am of my Swedish roots) but they're now Americans and don't want to see our soldiers killed.

We may be worlds apart on religion, but since neither of us are very devout in our faiths (his wife and daughter do not wear tradtiional dress, either), we still remain friends and don't let it get in the way. Too bad this does not work for the rest of the world, eh? Live and let live, I say.

I know its hard to do, but we have to take the Muslims on a case by case basis and not lump everyone into one group. If my one and only Muslim friend can share similar views on the extremists...theres bound to be others that think the same way. Possibly a huge slient majority. Remember, these people did not grow up in a place that has a First Ammendment - they're not used to speaking out publicly freely as we do in America.

This does not mean I want to go soft on those that DO try to do us Christian/Westerners/Americans harm or lighten up on border or airport security...far from it. If that means offending a few people, so we don't see more planes hit buildings, anthrax in the mail or a dirty bomb...so be it. They'll have to understand why we're doing this.

-Brickboy240

[carcassxd]

Nowhere in the Muslim world are women treated as equals -

"The Prophet Muhammad improved the status of women in 7th century Arabia. In local pagan society, it was the custom to bury alive unwanted female newborns; Islam prohibited the practice. Women had been treated as possessions of their husbands; Islamic law made the education of girls sacred duty and gave women the right to inherit property.
It is clear that the religion has been used in most Muslim countries not to liberate but to entrench inequality. The Taliban, with its fanatical subjugation of the female sex, occupies an extreme, but it nevertheless belongs on a continuum that includes, not so far down the line, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Pakistan and the relatively moderate states of Egypt and Jordan.
Where Muslims have afforded women the greatest degree of equality-in Turkey-they have done so by overthrowing Islamic precepts in favor of secular rule. 'The way Islam has been practiced in most Muslim societies for centuries has left millions of Muslim women with battered bodies, minds and souls.'
Part of the problem dates to Muhammad. Even as he proclaimed new rights for women, he enshrined their inequality in immutable law, passed down as God's commandments and eventually recorded in scripture. The Koran allots daughters half the inheritance of sons. It decrees that a woman's testimony in court, at least in financial matters, is worth half that of a man's. Under Shari's or Muslim law, compensation for the murder of a woman is half the going rate for men.
In many Muslim countries, these directives are incorporated into contemporary law. For a woman to prove rape in Pakistan, for example, four adult males of 'impeccable' character must witness the penetration, in accordance with Shari'a. Even in country like Egypt much of the legal code has been secularized. In Islam, women can have only one spouse, while men are permitted four. The legal age for girls to marry tends to be very young. Muhammad's favorite wife, A'isha, according to her biographer, was six when they wed, nine when the marriage was consummated.
In Iran the legal age for marriage is nine for girls, 14 for boys. The law has occasionally been exploited by pedophiles, who marry poor young girls from provinces, use and then abandon them. In 2000 the Iranian Parliament voted to raise the minimum age for girls to 14, but this year, a legislative oversight body dominated by traditional clerics vetoed the move.
An attempt by conservatives to abolish Yemen's legal minimum age of 15 for girls failed, but local experts say it is rarely enforced anyway. (The onset of puberty is considered an appropriate time for a marriage to be consummated.)
Wives in Islamic societies face great difficulty in suing for divorce, but husbands can be released from their vows virtually on demand, in some places merely by saying 'I divorce you' three times. Though in most Muslim states, divorces are entitled to alimony, in Pakistan it lasts only three months, long enough to ensure that the woman isn't pregnant. The same three-month rule applies even to the Muslim minority in India. There, a national law provides for long-term alimony, but to appease Islamic conservatives, authorities exempted Muslims.
Fear of poverty keeps many Muslim women locked in bad marriages, as does the prospect of losing their children. Typically, fathers win custody of boys over the age of six and girls after the onset of puberty. Maryam, an Iranian woman, says she has stayed married for 20 years to a philandering opium addict she does not love because she fears losing guardianship of her teenage daughter. 'Islam supposedly gives me the right to divorce,' she says. 'But what about my rights afterwards?'
Women's rights are compromised further by a section in the Koran, sura 4:34, that has been interpreted to say that men have 'pre-eminence' over women or that they are 'overseers' of women. The verse goes on to say that the husband of a subordinate wife should first admonish her to sleep alone and finally beat her. Wife beating is so prevalent in the Muslim world that social workers who assist battered women in Egypt, for example, spend much of their time trying to convince victims that their husbands' violent acts are unacceptable.
Each year hundreds of Muslim women die in 'honor killings'-murders by husbands or male relatives of women suspected of disobedience, usually a sexual indiscretion or marriage against the family's wishes. Typically, the killers are punished lightly, if at all. In Jordan, a man who slays his wife or a close relative after catching her in the act of adultery is exempt from punishment. If the situation only suggests illicit sex, he gets a reduced sentence.
The Jordanian royal family has made the rare move of condemning honor killings, but the government, fearful of offending conservatives, has not put its weight behind a proposal to repeal laws that grant leniency for killers.
Muslim perpetrators often claim their crimes are justified by harsh Islamic penalties, including death for adultery. And so religious and cultural customs become confused.
Female genital mutilation is another case in point. It involves removing part or all of a girls' clitoris and labia in an effort to reduce sexual desire and thereby preserve chastity. FGM is widespread in sub-Saharan Africa and in Egypt, with scattered cases in Asia and other parts of the Middle East.
Sexual anxiety lies at the heart of many Islamic strictures on women. They are required to cover their bodies in varying degrees in different places for fear they might arouse the lust of men other than their husbands. The Koran instructs women to 'guard their modesty.' Saudi women don a billowy black cloak called an abaya, along with a black scarf and veil over the face; morality police enforce the dress code by striking errant women with sticks. The women of Iran and Sudan can expose the face but must cover the hair and the neck.
Recently a Muslim fundamentalist group in the Indian province of Kashmir demanded that women start wearing the veil: when the call was ignored, men threw acid in the faces of uncovered women. Limits placed on the movement of Muslim women, the jobs they can hold and their interactions with men are all rooted in fears of unchaste behavior. The Taliban took these controls to an extreme, but the Saudis are also harsh, imposing on women some of the tightest restrictions on personal and civil freedoms anywhere.

.

[Brickboy240]

Why do you care how someone treats women thousands of miles away?

How does this affect your daily life or the lives of women in your family, friends or daily interactions?

We may not agree with it...or possibly think its wrong or primitive or whatever, but THEY have chosen to live that way...YOU and I did not.

If the women living under these laws/rules/religion do not care for it, they can leave. It may not be easy, but many have escaped it, becuase they thought it was horrible. Many stay. Who are we to think that every woman on the planet wants to live like American women? What if many Muslim women WANT to live that way? We don't have any real gauge that says that a majority of them don't.

I am not condoning the Muslim country's treatment of women or supporting it and I might not agree with it or want it for my wife and daughter, but I also don't think that OUR way is the ONLY way or that everyone should live like us.

This is the same kind of arragance that made our govt. think that the Iraquis WANTED US styled democracy over any other system. How did we know this? It certainly looks as if that part of the world knows very little of democracy and has never lived under it - how do we know they want it or that its best for them? Sorry, but that kind of thinking is flat-out arrogant.

I think theres room in this world for the Muslims to live their way and us "heathens" or Christians and Jews go ours. Only when one group starts thinking it is the "best way" or "the only way" and starts imposing its' values and wishes on those that don't want it, do I really start to have problems with it all.

I may be a fairly conservative person and 100% American, but above all else, I want everyone to live as they wish, as long as they do not infringe on others or force their lifestyles on those that do not want it. Strange, this type of thinking used to be thought of as "liberal."

Ladies....wear a burka...or a bikini...I don't care and I would never force you to wear either if you do not like it (LOL).

(flame away)

- Brickboy240

[carcassxd]

Why do you care how someone treats women thousands of miles away?

How does this affect your daily life or the lives of women in your family, friends or daily interactions?

heh, if enough people like you had that mentality during WW2 we'd either be lamp shades or goose steppers.

I agree, live as you wish....but not at someone elses cost.

[nightraider]

Originally Posted by carcassxd

heh, if enough people like you had that mentality during WW2 we'd either be lamp shades or goose steppers.

I agree, live as you wish....but not at someone elses cost.

So true.

[Krackels]

I don't understand what it matters.

Muslims will never win a Gold Medal for launching their body parts the farthest distance, and they're opposed to freedom of speech anyway.

I doubt many songs that are downloaded at the Ipod bar would be allowed to be imported into Iran or Syria.


Oh and I'm sure this has been said before, but doesn't this belong in the PV.

[Krackels]

Originally Posted by carcassxd

Nowhere in the Muslim world are women treated as equals

We should arm their women and tell them the truth: A woman that kills her oppressor is rewarded with a thousand masseurs in the afterlife.