This weeks look at Muslim Outrage

[beardman2]

Originally Posted by nikon777

Here's the thing people have to realize. You have a few idiots within the religion of Islam who then are used as stereotypes for an entire religion. Leaving the uneducated people to believe this is the norm and what all Muslims feel. For example, if the media only shows Mexicans committing crime on T.V., then the general perception is that Mexicans as a whole are criminals. This is basically what has/is happening with Islam. Islam for example is completely against all acts of unwarranted violence, and does not in any way sanction terrorism. The media however will not show you those Muslims who speak out against these heinous acts, leaving people to believe the average Muslim supports these vile actions due to Muslims not speaking out against them. The problem is you have extremist Muslims who form their own unfounded views of the religion, and act out accordingly. Of course these acts of terror make the headlines, and suddenly the religion of peace is the religion of terror. Due simply to radical groups who have taken their own stance on the meanings of the Quran and the religion in general. Now all of a sudden Islam is directly associated with terrorism. Unfortunately those who will never take the time to properly research and understand the religion will hold onto these incorrect perceptions.

The whole Apple cube thing....silly. I saw the new store a while ago and it never crossed my mind it looked like the kaba in Saudi Arabia. The Olympic thing... i say too bad. You cant expect them to change the date of the Olympics just because it conflicts with your particular religious holy month.

I really do feel for you. I want to believe islam is peacefull. It's hard not to get jaded. I wish we saw more muslims especially american muslims on the news outraged at whats going on. The truth is we don't. Our local radio talk show host has asked this question almost monthly since 9/11 and can almost never get a person to call in to say they are muslim and outraged. I've only heard 2.

I keep hearing the "unedducated people don't understand". If the KKK was the loudest christian group it would be safe to say even if the christians didn't agree with it they in some way are letting it happen.

[nikon777]

Again, as i mentioned the media sees what they want you to see. Look at the recent catholic scandals. The news has people automatically associating catholic priests with child molestation. Its automatic, its the first thing that comes to your mind if you play the word association game and use the words "catholic priest". Even if i didn't see outraged Catholics(which i dont), you'd have to be a moron to believe that this is the norm, and what catholicism is about. Just as you're a moron if you think bombs are what Islam is about. Ever do a Google search for " Islam forbids terrorism " ?. Here's just a few hits i got.



U.S. Muslim Scholars To Forbid Terrorism

An organization of top American Muslim religious scholars plans to issue a formal ruling today condemning terrorism and forbidding Muslims to cooperate with ... www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/27/AR2005072702082.html - Similar pages

Terrorism and Jihad in Islam

Terrorism is a crime against all humans. Islam (submission in English) is a religion that ... The religion of Islam forbids the killing of innocent people, ... www.submission.org/terrorism.html - 36k - Cached - Similar pages

Terrorists Are FALSE MUSLIMS, because The Quran Forbids Terrorism ...

THE QURAN FORBIDS TERRORISM FOR ANY REASON ... For their own misguided reasons, some "teachers" try to say that Islam authorizes terrorism in some cases and ... www.loveallpeople.org/quranforbidsterrorism.html - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

islam denounces terrorism

This book reveals, in the light of the verses of the Qur'an and with examples from history, that Islam forbids terrorism and aims to bring peace and ... www.harunyahya.com/terrorism1.php - 40k - Cached - Similar pages

Terrorism cannot be Justified by Any Religion of God; Submission ...

The true religion of Islam forbids the killing of innocent people, ... Terrorism has been committed by people from all religious and political backgrounds ... www.masjidtucson.org/submission/perspectives/striving/terrorism.html - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

[beardman2]

Originally Posted by nikon777

Again, as i mentioned the media sees what they want you to see. Look at the recent catholic scandals. The news has people automatically associating catholic priests with child molestation. Its automatic, its the first thing that comes to your mind if you play the word association game and use the words "catholic priest". Even if i didn't see outraged Catholics(which i dont), you'd have to be a moron to believe that this is the norm, and what catholicism is about. Just as you're a moron if you think bombs are what Islam is about. Ever do a Google search for " Islam forbids terrorism " ?. Here's just a few hits i got.



U.S. Muslim Scholars To Forbid Terrorism
Terrorism and Jihad in Islam
Terrorists Are FALSE MUSLIMS, because The Quran Forbids Terrorism ...
islam denounces terrorism Terrorism cannot be Justified by Any Religion of God; Submission ...

I know it is out there. My problem is with the level of it. I'd like to see a lot more of it. You can be angry that no one pays attention or you can put your energy into showing not all muslims are that way. Which you already do here.

[Broadside]

Great post Nikon777. It puts Islam in a better perspective for me. Living in the you can practice / preach just about any belief. We also have separation of church and state. One concern I have with radical Islam is most Middle Eastern Countries do not have a separation of church and state. Look at Iran when you have leaders preaching destruction of Israel and US. They are calling on the "higher" authority or belief structure to incentive people to take action like terrorism.


I guess my question to you would be how are the moderate & conservative Islamic leaders countering the radicals? Not only here in the US but abroad. It almost sounds like the Islamic community is facing a crisis between beliefs.

[carcassxd]

The difference is you wouldn't see the christian go over to a muslim country and blow them selves up in a damn market.

or go to a muslim country and demand that aspects of muslim culture be changed to accomadate their Christian beleifs.

same reason why the mexican illegals piss me off. come to our country and wave your flag in the streets demanding rights you arent entitled to. call me a bigot, I dont care. I'll be a bigot with a backbone at least.

edit: here is some food for thought. right from the muslim holy book (Koran):


"...now that a Book confirming their own has come to them from God, they deny it...they reply: 'We believe in what was revealed to us.' But they deny what has since been revealed, although it is truth...Say: 'Whoever is an enemy of Gabriel' (who has by God's grace revealed to you [Muhammad] the Koran as a guide...confirming previous scriptures)..will surely find that God is the enemy of the unbelievers.'...And now that an apostle has come to them from God confirming their own Scriptures, some of those to whom the Scriptures were given cast off the Book of God behind their backs...The unbelievers among the People of the Book, and the pagans, resent that any blessings should have been sent down to you from your Lord. " (Surah 2:88-, 98-, 103-)
"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)
"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)
"Men are tempted [in this life] by the lure of women...far better is the return of God. Say: 'Shall I tell you of better things than these, with which the righteous shall be rewarded by their Lord? Theirs shall be gardens watered by running streams, where they shall dwell for ever: wives of perfect chastity..." (Surah 3:14, 15)
"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)
"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)
"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)
"To those that declare: 'God has commanded us to believe no apostle unless he brings down fire to consume an offering,' say: 'Other apostles before me [Muhammad] have come to you with veritable signs and worked the miracle you asked for...If they reject you [Muhammad], other apostles have been rejected before you..." (Surah 3:183-)
"If you wish to replace a wife with another, do not take from her the dowry you have given her..." (Surah 4:20)
"Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves." (Surah 4:20-, 24-)
"Believers, do not approach your prayers when you are drunk, but wait till you can grasp the meaning of your words..." (Surah 4:43)
"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)
"Try as you may, you cannot treat all your wives impartially." (Surah 4:126-)
"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:1
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
"The God will say: 'Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind 'Worship me and my mother as gods besides God?' 'Glory to You, 'he will answer, 'how could I ever say that to which I have no right?" (Surah 5:114-)
"Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
"If you fear treachery from any of your allies, you may fairly retaliate by breaking off your treaty with them." (Surah 8:51-)
"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)
"It ill becomes the idolaters [non-Muslims] to visit the mosques of God..." (Surah 9:17)
"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)
"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)
"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)
"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)
"Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)
"'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 8
"Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:7
"Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)
"You shall not force your slave-girls into prostitution in order that you make money, if they wish to preserve their chastity." (Surah 24:33-)
"As for the faithful who do good works and believe what is revealed to Muhammad...He will forgive them their sins..." (Surah 47:1)
"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29) "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)

[Dustoff '68]

I thought you metros from Castro Street were a lot more liberal....sheesshhhh.....times sure have changed

[lYxFizzyl]

good post carcassxd !!!

[carcassxd]

Originally Posted by Dustoff '68

I thought you metros from Castro Street were a lot more liberal....sheesshhhh.....times sure have changed

ouch. was born and raised (for the most part) in Texas actually

Despite the far left leaning atmosphere, I dont think I will ever leave NORCAL. Its just way too beautiful of a place. But yes, us californian conservatives are a dying breed You ought to see what kind of reactions I get when I go out on the town with my "Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder" t-shirt.

[maverick9614]

I try to be fair in my judgements of others.
I grew up in the deep south and I know the effects of hating people simply because they are different from you.

I have tryed to make fair judgements of the islamic world, and I realize that some practioners thereof ( the general who just staged a bloodless coup in Thailand comes to mind) are using non-violent mean to their ends, but I just don't see it the same way with the middle-east.

These people are violent. Please don't burn my church to prove otherwise.

They are childish, unable to ignore stupid little cartoons about their prophet that came half a world away.

THey are full of hate, not just to other religions but to the different sects of their own people. Has noone told the Shiites and Sunni's they fighting thieir "brothers in God" and slaughtering each other for nothing more than growing up in different areas?

They hate other races, just look at the government sponsored slaughter of black Muslims in Darfor (sp?). They are killing black muslims for the color of their skin and no other reason.

How can someone defend this? If you practice this religion peacefully, God or Allah bless you, whichever you prefer.

If you have thrown your lot in with these idiots in the asshole of the world,

"May God have mercy on my enemys, because I wont." Patton

[nikon777]

Originally Posted by carcassxd

edit: here is some food for thought. right from the muslim holy book (Koran):


"...now that a Book confirming their own has come to them from God, they deny it...they reply: 'We believe in what was revealed to us.' But they deny what has since been revealed, although it is truth...Say: 'Whoever is an enemy of Gabriel' (who has by God's grace revealed to you [Muhammad] the Koran as a guide...confirming previous scriptures)..will surely find that God is the enemy of the unbelievers.'...And now that an apostle has come to them from God confirming their own Scriptures, some of those to whom the Scriptures were given cast off the Book of God behind their backs...The unbelievers among the People of the Book, and the pagans, resent that any blessings should have been sent down to you from your Lord. " (Surah 2:88-, 98-, 103-)
"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)
"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)
"Men are tempted [in this life] by the lure of women...far better is the return of God. Say: 'Shall I tell you of better things than these, with which the righteous shall be rewarded by their Lord? Theirs shall be gardens watered by running streams, where they shall dwell for ever: wives of perfect chastity..." (Surah 3:14, 15)
"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)
"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)
"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)
"To those that declare: 'God has commanded us to believe no apostle unless he brings down fire to consume an offering,' say: 'Other apostles before me [Muhammad] have come to you with veritable signs and worked the miracle you asked for...If they reject you [Muhammad], other apostles have been rejected before you..." (Surah 3:183-)
"If you wish to replace a wife with another, do not take from her the dowry you have given her..." (Surah 4:20)
"Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves." (Surah 4:20-, 24-)
"Believers, do not approach your prayers when you are drunk, but wait till you can grasp the meaning of your words..." (Surah 4:43)
"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)
"Try as you may, you cannot treat all your wives impartially." (Surah 4:126-)
"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:1
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
"The God will say: 'Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind 'Worship me and my mother as gods besides God?' 'Glory to You, 'he will answer, 'how could I ever say that to which I have no right?" (Surah 5:114-)
"Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
"If you fear treachery from any of your allies, you may fairly retaliate by breaking off your treaty with them." (Surah 8:51-)
"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)
"It ill becomes the idolaters [non-Muslims] to visit the mosques of God..." (Surah 9:17)
"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)
"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)
"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)
"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)
"Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)
"'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 8
"Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:7
"Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)
"You shall not force your slave-girls into prostitution in order that you make money, if they wish to preserve their chastity." (Surah 24:33-)
"As for the faithful who do good works and believe what is revealed to Muhammad...He will forgive them their sins..." (Surah 47:1)
"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29) "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)

A few selected verses from the Qur’an are often misquoted to perpetuate the myth that Islam promotes violence

"Kill the mushriqeen (pagans, kafirs) where ever you find them." [Al-Qur’an 9:5]
2. Context of verse is during battlefield
Critics of Islam actually quote this verse out of context. In order to understand the context, we need to read from verse 1 of this surah. It says that there was a peace treaty between the Muslims and the Mushriqs (pagans) of Makkah. This treaty was violated by the Mushriqs of Makkah. A period of four months was given to the Mushriqs of Makkah to make amends. Otherwise war would be declared against them. Verse 5 of Surah Taubah says: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is oft-forgiving, Most merciful." [Al-Qur’an 9:5]
This verse is quoted during a battle.
3. Example of war between America and Vietnam
We know that America was once at war with Vietnam. Suppose the President of America or the General of the American Army told the American soldiers during the war: "Wherever you find the Vietnamese, kill them". Today if I say that the American President said, "Wherever you find Vietnamese, kill them" without giving the context, I will make him sound like a butcher. But if I quote him in context, that he said it during a war, it will sound very logical, as he was trying to boost the morale of the American soldiers during the war.
4. Verse 9:5 quoted to boost morale of Muslims during battle
Similarly in Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 the Qur’an says, "Kill the Mushriqs where ever you find them", during a battle to boost the morale of the Muslim soldiers. What the Qur’an is telling Muslim soldiers is, don’t be afraid during battle; wherever you find the enemies kill them.
6. Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer
Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer to the allegation that Islam promotes violence, brutality and bloodshed. It says:
"If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge." [Al-Qur’an 9:6]
The Qur’an not only says that a Mushriq seeking asylum during the battle should be granted refuge, but also that he should be escorted to a secure place. In the present international scenario, even a kind, peace-loving army General, during a battle, may let the enemy soldiers go free, if they want peace. But which army General will ever tell his soldiers, that if the enemy soldiers want peace during a battle, don’t just let them go free, but also escort them to a place of security?