Armed Robber Killed by permit holder

[Neomet]

Originally Posted by retired

As far as gangbangers killing gangbangers; no victims involved.

Ha! Definite +1. After my robbery one of the perps tried to shoot another 'banger with a rifle they scored. I told the LEO that he could use it again for the same purpose if he promised to aim better.

I get your point about being LEO/exLEO. That would make a difference to me also.

Good points retired!

[O.C. 4 U]

It's just too bad the positive side of firearms isn't shown as much in the media as the negative. Lately it seems like ever time I turn on the TV I'm hearing about school shooting or something. We need every bit of good press we can get.

[TheXDkid]

if the BG is truly a criminal what stopped him from shooting first then taking your money, its easier that way. he doesn't want to kill you he just uses a gun as a threat, i went to school with a guy who recently got busted for armed robberies like this. his lawyer said it couldn't be armed robbery because he never not once had ammo for the gun, he didnt know what it was. we learned thid in the BG pscology portion of my martial arts class if they wanted to kill you you would be dead, they don't they just want your money.

[robinsre]

Originally Posted by TheXDkid

if the BG is truly a criminal what stopped him from shooting first then taking your money, its easier that way. he doesn't want to kill you he just uses a gun as a threat, i went to school with a guy who recently got busted for armed robberies like this. his lawyer said it couldn't be armed robbery because he never not once had ammo for the gun, he didnt know what it was. we learned thid in the BG pscology portion of my martial arts class if they wanted to kill you you would be dead, they don't they just want your money.

Thats pretty wishful thinking, but you can't apply it to everyone. What if the BG is a sadist and just wants to instill as much fear as he can, making you writhe with terror before offing you? What if he panics once you give him your wallet and decides he can't leave a witness? There are too many variables to say this is a cut and dry issue. I can definitely see KOLs and Neomet's point about not outdrawing a drawn gun, and I'm certainly going to make every effort not to take an undue risk, but I'm also not going to be naive enough to leave my life in the hands of someone else.

[Shardlow]

Originally Posted by TheXDkid

if the BG is truly a criminal what stopped him from shooting first then taking your money, its easier that way. he doesn't want to kill you he just uses a gun as a threat, i went to school with a guy who recently got busted for armed robberies like this. his lawyer said it couldn't be armed robbery because he never not once had ammo for the gun, he didnt know what it was. we learned thid in the BG pscology portion of my martial arts class if they wanted to kill you you would be dead, they don't they just want your money.

That's nice in theory, but it presumes you are dealing with rational-thinking people ... hardly the case with most criminals. See the following story:

UVa student wounded in robbery, shooting

From staff reports / Charlottesville Daily Progress
September 12, 2006

---

A fourth-year University of Virginia student was shot in the stomach this weekend during a robbery at his home, Charlottesville Police Chief Timothy J. Longo said Monday.
At about 3:30 a.m. Sunday, a 21-year-old student was sitting on the back porch of his residence on the 1000 block of Wertland Street, Longo said.
The student was talking to his girlfriend on a cell phone when two men approached him and demanded the phone, said Capt. J.E. “Chip” Harding of the city police.
The student handed it over and did as the two men said, but one of the robbers shot him in the stomach anyway, Harding said.
“He was complying with what they asked him to do,” Harding said. “It’s pretty disturbing to have somebody who will shoot you even though you’re doing what they told you.”
The two men made off with the phone and other items, which police did not identify Monday.
The victim was taken to the University of Virginia Medical Center, where surgeons removed the bullet, Longo said.
He was in stable condition Monday, according to a news release from the city police. Further details about his condition were unavailable.
Harding, however, said the injury is serious and that the young man’s parents have flown in from out of state to be with him.
Authorities are looking for two black males in connection with the incident. Anyone with information can call Crimestoppers at (434) 977-4000 or Detective Jim Mooney at (434) 970-3374.

[saltysquid]

Exactly right Shardlow, if people want to believe the bg's are rational and follow some type of rules then that's their business. The truth is that plenty of people have been killed after complying with the BG.

[Neomet]

OK, last go-around for me. The statistics will bear out that the vast majority of armed robbers do not plan to shoot/kill their victims. If someone has statistics to support otherwise I am all ears. There will always be press coverage for the horrible cases like have been shown here. It is because it is good news and putting space in the paper about the couple that got robbed last night and walked away will not sell papers.

All that being said I am in complete agreement with gunning down some perp IF I can get the drop on them.

Opinions vary however.

Thanks for an interesting thread guys.

[TwoValveKid]

It just makes you wonder what the real story was. You know how it goes with all of you. The BG may have just flashed the gun and said something or grabbed the guys wife. But you have to have probable cause to shoot. Not saying he did anything bad...wouldve done the exact same thing. Dead men tell no tales.

[robinsre]

Originally Posted by Neomet

OK, last go-around for me. The statistics will bear out that the vast majority of armed robbers do not plan to shoot/kill their victims. If someone has statistics to support otherwise I am all ears. There will always be press coverage for the horrible cases like have been shown here. It is because it is good news and putting space in the paper about the couple that got robbed last night and walked away will not sell papers.

All that being said I am in complete agreement with gunning down some perp IF I can get the drop on them.

Opinions vary however.

Thanks for an interesting thread guys.

My only argument would be that if someone who is being robbed is shot, how do the police know it was an armed robbery. IMHO It would probably just be listed as a murder. I wonder how many "murders" started out as "armed robberies".

[saltysquid]

Yea, MOST statistics say they won't kill after robbing, but that's the same as statistics saying MOST people don't get robbed so there's no need for ccw's. Hell if robbers don't kill people then why is there a need for anyone to carry a gun to protect themsevles. IF anyone is dumb enough to believe the BG's know they are supposed to go by statistics they they have a chance of becoming a statistic themselves. A dead statistic.

I guess the BG's union is messing up. There are lots of them not getting the BG's handbook of how they are supposed to operate.

A convenience store clerk gunned down after complying with a robber's demands to hand over money

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs....347/0/NEWS1302

"This is a very cold and callous crime," Chief Deputy Craig Brady said. "This man was basically executed after fully complying with every demand that was made of him."

http://www.click2houston.com/news/9953883/detail.html

Mr Kastenberger, 58, of Cockatoo, in the Dandenong Ranges, had worked as a security guard with Chubb for six years. Witnesses said he was shot in the head at close range by one of the gunmen even though he and his colleague obeyed the armed robbers' demands to hand over the cash and get on the ground.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/Nation...316092389.html

A Fort Bend County gas station clerk is dead despite complying with a masked gunman’s demands late Wednesday night.

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stori....249fffcd.html

After complying with the robbers demands, Clemencia Jimenez was shot by the suspect. The suspect remained at large until today.

http://www.sanantonio.gov/sapd/pdf/Adv_090206.pdf

Even if this happens at a small enough percentage, compared to total robberies, to equate it to the amount of people robbed to people not robbed (which I don't believe for a minute) and that's worth ignoring then why carry a concealed carry weapon at all? There would also be a small enough percentage of people getting robbed to make carrying a weapon "statistically" not needed. I threw my rose colored glasses away when the 60's ended. OK, maybe it was in the early 70's.