A.T.F. Bastards! - Page 5 - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

VAXDGUY · 10-11-2006, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seed

Exactly. But the more they abuse our rights with the goal of disarming the very entity they fear the most: the general populace

Eh? Who says they fear us? You have a 9mm. They have M1 tanks....

O.C. 4 U · 10-11-2006, 06:06 PM

Yeah, their idea of a BBQ gun is different from yours........remember Waco?

LUVMYSIGP225 · 10-11-2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAXDGUY

Eh? Who says they fear us? You have a 9mm. They have M1 tanks....

That ATF has pencil neck wussies. The Army has M-1 tanks. I am an ex-tanker. When you spend 4 years driving, cleaning and wrenching on M-1's in Fort Knox, KY, you get real good at knowing how to make them work for YOU.

19 Kilo
1st 81st 3PLT
1987 to 1991

**hacker15** · 10-12-2006, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy44221

Did that legislation pass? I know of some stores by me that have been shut down (NE OH). The one I frequent is being shut down. The ATF wont let them appeal, or even know all of the acusations. And they wont let them appear in fornt of a judge. So Basicly the ATF says you broke a law, but i wont tell you which one, and you cant defend yourself so we are revoking your licence. And we wont licence anyone else who knows you guys, so they cant reopen the store either. Even though they havent done anything wrong.

Passed the House (270+ to 170-) - waitting on Senete vote.

Brad Johnson · 10-12-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hacker15

Passed the House (270+ to 170-) - waitting on Senete vote.

As of Sept 28th, the Hon Senator FineSwine has frozen the bill. It has a procedural hold on it which will take 60 Senators to break (which, at this point, appears very unlikely).

Brad

seed · 10-12-2006, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

As of Sept 28th, the Hon Senator FineSwine has frozen the bill. It has a procedural hold on it which will take 60 Senators to break (which, at this point, appears very unlikely).

Brad

Shocking, I tell you. Very shocking...

seed · 10-12-2006, 03:22 PM

Weakening an intrusive and abusive federal agency, which is designed to do its part to keep us peasants under the thumb of the elites? There is no way that bill gets passed.

AKM · 10-13-2006, 06:45 AM

I'm continuously amazed at the "freedom loving" gun owners who make statements like "the law is the law!"

I challenge anybody making that statement to read the laws. All the laws. Every federal, state, county, and municiple law that YOU are required to follow. You can't. Even law professors who live and breathe the law don't know all the laws. It's not possible. Our laws in this country have reached the point where that which is not forbidden is required. And many things are both. You literally have no idea how many laws you break in a day.

I submit to you this quote from Ayn Rand:

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

And leaving aside all the non-gun laws it's still not possible to comply with all the gun laws when the agency enforcing them has the power to "interpret" the laws however they see fit. And the interpretation changes depending on who you ask or what mood they're in. (Ask me how I know. I'll tell you a little story of my run-in with the ATF.)

Were the gun shops that were shut down doing something illegal? Then prosecute the offenders. Were they simply guilty of abreviating a state name? Probably not. But given the fact that the ATF is a power-mad rogue agency with it's own agenda, my default position is to believe they're in the wrong until proven otherwise.

"Guns are lethal devices!" So are cars. Cars kill orders of magnitudes more people in this country than guns. Pools kill more children than guns. So we need a Bureau of Automobiles and Pools to shut down all those evil scum selling death in our own neighborhoods.

Dustoff '68 · 10-13-2006, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKM

I'm continuously amazed at the "freedom loving" gun owners who make statements like "the law is the law!"

I challenge anybody making that statement to read the laws. All the laws. Every federal, state, county, and municiple law that YOU are required to follow. You can't. Even law professors who live and breathe the law don't know all the laws. It's not possible. Our laws in this country have reached the point where that which is not forbidden is required. And many things are both. You literally have no idea how many laws you break in a day.

I submit to you this quote from Ayn Rand:

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

And leaving aside all the non-gun laws it's still not possible to comply with all the gun laws when the agency enforcing them has the power to "interpret" the laws however they see fit. And the interpretation changes depending on who you ask or what mood they're in. (Ask me how I know. I'll tell you a little story of my run-in with the ATF.)

Were the gun shops that were shut down doing something illegal? Then prosecute the offenders. Were they simply guilty of abreviating a state name? Probably not. But given the fact that the ATF is a power-mad rogue agency with it's own agenda, my default position is to believe they're in the wrong until proven otherwise.

"Guns are lethal devices!" So are cars. Cars kill orders of magnitudes more people in this country than guns. Pools kill more children than guns. So we need a Bureau of Automobiles and Pools to shut down all those evil scum selling death in our own neighborhoods.

...yep....well said.

Mikeyboy · 10-13-2006, 08:25 AM

With all due respect..... a store getting shut down JUST for putting OH instead of Ohio is a crock of you know what. If that was the case, every store cannot be 100% accurate. Why isn't every store getting harrassed and shut down.

I know an ATF guy and he saying they are cracking down on all of the shady Straw market gun stores that are selling to one guy 25, 50 or even 100 guns per month so he can sell it on the street. There is no law against someone who wants tocomes in your store and buys 10 glock 19s in one day, and does it every day for a month, but the gun store has a moral obligation to the public to either deny the sale or to tip off the police.

I was totally against Philadelphia passing the 1 gun a month law, but my ATF agent friend explained it to me this way. They get a guy that goes into a store and lets say buys 5 glock 26s. and does it every day. Almost a month passes when the constant background checks at the PA state police throws up a red flag on this guy, and the ATF is brought in. The guy gets a knock on his door and answers a few question, but before the law passes there is no limit on the amount of firearms so the guy if the guy has a clean record he did nothing illegal. Suddenly the guy stops buying guns, passing the torch onto another person with a clean record, but at this point over 100 guns was purchase by this guy and all of them have been sold for a profit to anyone on the street. The ATF investigates the gun store and they all say, "I didn't realize, I'm just trying to make a living, I had no reason to turn the guy away." Most gun shops guys are friendly to the police and will turn away or turn in anyone pulling this scam off but some gun stores just want to make a profit, and look the other way. In Philadelphia alone about 5 or 10 stores are doing this and about 25 people do the buying every month, so thousands of illegal guns hit the street every year. This is happening practically everywhere across the US and this is becoming the #1 way the Bad guys arm themselves.

If these are the Shops that are getting harrassed and shut down, then they deserve it.

10-11-2006, 06:06 PM	#42
O.C. 4 U XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: BFE, pa Posts: 1,782	Yeah, their idea of a BBQ gun is different from yours........remember Waco? __________________ Few had nightmares from their duties, and none would ever fall victim to delayed-stress syndrome, because they deemed themselves to be predators, not prey, and lions know no such feelings.--Tom Clancy

10-13-2006, 06:45 AM	#48
AKM XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phoenix Posts: 1,511	I'm continuously amazed at the "freedom loving" gun owners who make statements like "the law is the law!" I challenge anybody making that statement to read the laws. All the laws. Every federal, state, county, and municiple law that YOU are required to follow. You can't. Even law professors who live and breathe the law don't know all the laws. It's not possible. Our laws in this country have reached the point where that which is not forbidden is required. And many things are both. You literally have no idea how many laws you break in a day. I submit to you this quote from Ayn Rand: "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." And leaving aside all the non-gun laws it's still not possible to comply with all the gun laws when the agency enforcing them has the power to "interpret" the laws however they see fit. And the interpretation changes depending on who you ask or what mood they're in. (Ask me how I know. I'll tell you a little story of my run-in with the ATF.) Were the gun shops that were shut down doing something illegal? Then prosecute the offenders. Were they simply guilty of abreviating a state name? Probably not. But given the fact that the ATF is a power-mad rogue agency with it's own agenda, my default position is to believe they're in the wrong until proven otherwise. "Guns are lethal devices!" So are cars. Cars kill orders of magnitudes more people in this country than guns. Pools kill more children than guns. So we need a Bureau of Automobiles and Pools to shut down all those evil scum selling death in our own neighborhoods. __________________ Liviu Librescu - În veci pomenirea lui. U.S. Army/Marine Snipers - Making the World a Better Place, 175 grains at a time.

10-13-2006, 08:25 AM	#50
Mikeyboy XDTalk Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Armed and Somewhere between The City of Brotherly Love & Hershey PA The Sweetest Place on Earth. Posts: 63	With all due respect..... a store getting shut down JUST for putting OH instead of Ohio is a crock of you know what. If that was the case, every store cannot be 100% accurate. Why isn't every store getting harrassed and shut down. I know an ATF guy and he saying they are cracking down on all of the shady Straw market gun stores that are selling to one guy 25, 50 or even 100 guns per month so he can sell it on the street. There is no law against someone who wants tocomes in your store and buys 10 glock 19s in one day, and does it every day for a month, but the gun store has a moral obligation to the public to either deny the sale or to tip off the police. I was totally against Philadelphia passing the 1 gun a month law, but my ATF agent friend explained it to me this way. They get a guy that goes into a store and lets say buys 5 glock 26s. and does it every day. Almost a month passes when the constant background checks at the PA state police throws up a red flag on this guy, and the ATF is brought in. The guy gets a knock on his door and answers a few question, but before the law passes there is no limit on the amount of firearms so the guy if the guy has a clean record he did nothing illegal. Suddenly the guy stops buying guns, passing the torch onto another person with a clean record, but at this point over 100 guns was purchase by this guy and all of them have been sold for a profit to anyone on the street. The ATF investigates the gun store and they all say, "I didn't realize, I'm just trying to make a living, I had no reason to turn the guy away." Most gun shops guys are friendly to the police and will turn away or turn in anyone pulling this scam off but some gun stores just want to make a profit, and look the other way. In Philadelphia alone about 5 or 10 stores are doing this and about 25 people do the buying every month, so thousands of illegal guns hit the street every year. This is happening practically everywhere across the US and this is becoming the #1 way the Bad guys arm themselves. If these are the Shops that are getting harrassed and shut down, then they deserve it. Last edited by Mikeyboy; 10-13-2006 at 08:28 AM.

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10-12-2006, 03:22 PM	#47
seed XDTalk Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 45	Weakening an intrusive and abusive federal agency, which is designed to do its part to keep us peasants under the thumb of the elites? There is no way that bill gets passed.