A.T.F. Bastards!

[jeff221]

The NRA supported Republicans have held both the house & senate for some time... If they support Gun Rights as they claim they do they should prevent this from happening...

[Dustoff '68]

Originally Posted by jeff221

I was told in another thread that Illegal = Illegal.. Mass Muder is the same as J-Walking (there is no "More Illegal", or so I'm told). Thus, if you write "OH" instead of "OHIO" then you've broken the law.. Shut'em'down!

....but if you insist, it's illegal....I say it's a documentation issue.

[hacker15]

Originally Posted by jeff221

The NRA supported Republicans have held both the house & senate for some time... If they support Gun Rights as they claim they do they should prevent this from happening...

I think they've tried, but it's kind of hard to unseat an entrenched federal organization like the BATFE.

I agree that they could have done more (and should have!). It's the mind set at BATF that just blows me away. I have an FFL for C&R. Every year, I get a 4" book from BATFE that spells out the rules/regs for firearms. If you actually read the damn thing, you find that the rules on page 46 contervene the rules laid out on page 65, which are in conflict with the rules on page 158. AUGHHHHHHHHHHH! There's no way to comply with all this crap and, no matter what you do, you'll transgress some of these overly complex rules or laws just by having the license and collecting old military rifles.

Now, that doesn't take into consideration the NY State book (also about 2" think) that conflicts in many cases with the rules laid out by BATFE.

See where this is headed?

[Dustoff '68]

My take is if you can't read the rules, and comply with same, then you have no business having an FFL.

[beardman2]

Originally Posted by LUVMYSIGP225

Gee, I hope I never make a mistake while working. I would hate to lose my job for a few clerical mistakes. And, by the way, I hope the investigating agent doesn't make any mistakes on his paperwork. After all, he is dealing with people's livelihoods when he closes these guys down. I hope the attornies defending at least one of these cases are looking thoroughly for mis-spells in the case paperwork.

these aren't flowers they are selling. These are killing machines. everyone of these people that doesn't keep their books in order puts OUR right to buy these products in danger.

Ever hear of a case being dismissed because of a "technicality"? same thing different group.

I'm all for fixing the gun laws. In fact I'd argue 99% of them are unconstitutional. Including the NFA. But you have to comply with the laws until they are changed.

[AwPhuch]

Originally Posted by Dustoff '68

My take is if you can't read the rules, and comply with same, then you have no business having an FFL.

You remember the robocop movie where they loaded his prime directives with so much BS he lost his mind...dont you think they are kinda doing the same thing..making it sooo hard to follow the rules you just give up

There is more than one way to take away someones guns than physically removing them...make it so laborous or "unlawful in one way or another" and people will stop carrying...

[BillSXT2002]

The problem is there is NO difference between saying OH and Ohio on the form. That doesn't make the person buying any more or less able to buy the firearm. I think some of you are overlooking just how insignificant these "mistakes" really are. We aren't talking about selling to the wrong guy, we are talking about getting your FFL taken away becasue where it says birthday, the guy put Oct. 30, 1978 instead of 10/30/1978.

You can call that following the rules if you want, I call it borderline entrapment. It just means at any given time, they can take away your FFL just becasue they feel like it. If you think this is how legal "technicalities" work, that just isn't the case. This is beyond a technicality.

[AwPhuch]

Originally Posted by BillSXT2002

The problem is there is NO difference between saying OH and Ohio on the form. That doesn't make the person buying any more or less able to buy the firearm. I think some of you are overlooking just how insignificant these "mistakes" really are. We aren't talking about selling to the wrong guy, we are talking about getting your FFL taken away becasue where it says birthday, the guy put Oct. 30, 1978 instead of 10/30/1978.

You can call that following the rules if you want, I call it borderline entrapment. It just means at any given time, they can take away your FFL just becasue they feel like it. If you think this is how legal "technicalities" work, that just isn't the case. This is beyond a technicality.

correct..it is a method to literally force gun control without actually passing a law, kinda like taking away your licence because your address wasnt right...or denying your tax return because you were off by a penny or something...

[beardman2]

Originally Posted by BillSXT2002

The problem is there is NO difference between saying OH and Ohio on the form. That doesn't make the person buying any more or less able to buy the firearm. I think some of you are overlooking just how insignificant these "mistakes" really are. We aren't talking about selling to the wrong guy, we are talking about getting your FFL taken away becasue where it says birthday, the guy put Oct. 30, 1978 instead of 10/30/1978.

You can call that following the rules if you want, I call it borderline entrapment. It just means at any given time, they can take away your FFL just becasue they feel like it. If you think this is how legal "technicalities" work, that just isn't the case. This is beyond a technicality.

but if its the law... there is no way around it. Until you change how the rules are made you still have the follow the rules.

Are there dumb rules? You bet but they are the rules.

[jeff221]

Originally Posted by BillSXT2002

The problem is there is NO difference between saying OH and Ohio on the form. That doesn't make the person buying any more or less able to buy the firearm. I think some of you are overlooking just how insignificant these "mistakes" really are. We aren't talking about selling to the wrong guy, we are talking about getting your FFL taken away becasue where it says birthday, the guy put Oct. 30, 1978 instead of 10/30/1978.

You can call that following the rules if you want, I call it borderline entrapment. It just means at any given time, they can take away your FFL just becasue they feel like it. If you think this is how legal "technicalities" work, that just isn't the case. This is beyond a technicality.

First off, I don't buy the fact that they lost the FFL because someone put "OH" instead of "OHIO" once or twice... My guess is you have no idea the actual reason for the shutdown and you're assuming it's these "typo" errors.

No offense, but I don't buy it. I'm certain if the ATF showed up and tried to shut my shop down for "OH vs. OHIO" my attorney would have it straightened out within a day and I'd be back in business. And you can't tell me a shop open for 20-30 years doesn't have an attorney to fix this issue for them.

There is more to this story, either you don't know or your not telling, either way, there is more here than meets the eye.