Baseball going chickenturd

[one-eyed-fatman]

Originally Posted by jkswiss

Don't hate because they're different. American baseball players have been to used to overhand pitches. I don't know if any of you guys followed the World Baseball Classics last year but the asian submarine pitchers from Japan and Korea effectively shut down the all star USA team batting lineup. The ball has a tendency to rise as it gets towards the plate, throwing the batters off. Don't rule it out as unfair because we don't know how to counter it. Adapt and overcome!

Thanks jk. Nice to see someone who is capable of making some decent conversation. I can't believe we let some people here own guns.

[mgeoffriau]

Originally Posted by one-eyed-fatman

No my arguement is that corporate ownership makes the rules.

I was under the impression that Major League Baseball as an organization controlled the rulebook.

It's the first time I've seen em bouce a ball off the ground.

Really? First time ever? You've never seen a curveball bounce in front of the plate? You've never seen a wild pitch?

I can see you explaining the rules to a kid.

You're not a little kid.

You'd say something like " hey ya little dumb**** this is the way it is". Now that's your kind of funny.

I didn't call you names, I merely took you to task over an ignorant, ridiculous post.

I can see why a lot of people are not into baseball your replys really suck.

Oh, boo hoo. Cry me a river. You're right, though, I am solely responsible for baseball's declining popularity, particularly among children.

Come on, OEFM. You of all people, whining about getting your feelings hurt?

[Wu Wei]

Originally Posted by mgeoffriau

Come on, OEFM. You of all people, whining about getting your feelings hurt?

Well, you did jump all over his sh1t for a more or less conversational thread..

I quit bothering with MLB when I was about 10. It bored me to death. Recently we got some free tickets to a minor-league game and I had a BLAST! I will dodge the pitching issue, but I agree with One-Eye that professional players and deep-pocketed corporate team owners make the game less enjoyable to watch. It's the same for me with basketball. I'll watch a women's league game anyday, occasionally men's collegiate, but it has been years since watching Pro Basketball. They are just too damn good and they always make the most logical play for the situation. I know it is good ball, but it sure ain't good spectating for my tastes.

[mgeoffriau]

Originally Posted by Wu Wei

Well, you did jump all over his sh1t for a more or less conversational thread..

'Scuse me. I get a little tired of his repeated whining about "evil corporate forces."

He makes an uninformed statement about baseball, then blames corporate owners for it? Come on, OEFM doesn't give anyone else free passes, should he get one?

Anyway, if you read my first response, all I did was correct him on the history pitchers throwing from a sidearm slot or lower, then ask what the "corporate" comment to do with it. But OEFM doesn't like to be corrected. So it continued.

I still don't get where some of these guys get off complaining about Tom.

EDITED TO ADD:

I love baseball, every level, but I do agree that there is something pure and special about minor-league baseball that MLB has lost. The players are playing for the opportunity to do what they love, to make it to the next level, not for the paycheck that's more than the GDP of most small nations. We have the Braves Double-A affiliate here in town, and we've gone with friends several times this season. Tickets are cheap, it's a nice new park (made possible by a corporate sponser, no less), with good food and decent beer.

[[TASF]Maverick]

Yeah, sidearm pitching is just a style. For some people, it comes more naturally than going overhand. When I pitched in high school (I wasn't the best in the world) I only threw 79 mph overhand but I threw 83 mph sidearm and the ball had more movement on it. haha I'd actually throw sidearm once or twice in the game on a third strike to mess people up.

My coach wouldn't let me throw sidearm full-time because he was an old school kind of guy who wanted an overpowering type pitcher. That ain't me.

Basically, the advantages of throwing sidearm is that it is typically harder to see the ball coming out of the pitcher's hand so you can't really pick up the rotation of the ball until it's too late. Dontrelle Willis is a good example of someone who hides the ball well and messes some people up with his windup. Throwing sidearm is also just... different. And it does take a little getting used to. The angles of the ball coming to home plate are different as well. It's difficult for a left handed hitter to hit against a left handed pitcher, but it's even more difficult for a LH hitter to hit against a LH sidearmed pitcher because the ball will sometimes almost be crossing the hitter's shoulder before it gets to the plate. Sidearms also typically have a "rising" fastball that doesn't actually rise, but it remains at a constant elevation whereas overhand fastballs will come to home plate at a downward angle and lose elevation.

The biggest disadvantage I can think of is that throwing sidearm usually puts a lot of stress on your elbow and can lead to some problems that way. And it's ugly.

But I don't think this is a problem with the MLB right now, this is simply just another part of the evolution of the game of baseball. Pitching wind-ups and deliveries have been changing since the game began, just like batting stances and swings. Baserunning even evolves!

[Wu Wei]

Sounds like there are wider issues I'm unaware of regarding people's ideas/posts and history. I was just looking at this thread by itself and it kinda looks like, "Whoa! - Flame Fest 2006!" I don't want to get involved other than offering my impression of the conversation tone.

Our minors are corporate sponsored, but they are local businesses like breweries, radio stations and such. Oscar Mayer is the only biggie, but their HQ and factory is 2 mi. from the ballpark and they sponsor local kids' and bar teams too, so the feel is different. I am not totally anti-corporate, but I think "Absolute power corrupts absolutely" applies to corporations even more than people. It is a problem, HUGE, especially if one follows how the legislature works and how laws actually come to be. The Military-Industrial Complex has arrived as predicted, it IS strangling our Great Democracy, and I undrstand how OEFM could get into a rant over it. I did that for a couple years too.. I know more than a few people around me got annoyed by it, though. Now I just bide my time to make a difference.

I guess I see both sides, it just depends whether you guys care enough to smooth it out. I hope so.

[mgeoffriau]

Originally Posted by [TASF]Maverick

Basically, the advantages of throwing sidearm is that it is typically harder to see the ball coming out of the pitcher's hand so you can't really pick up the rotation of the ball until it's too late.

Remember David Cone? Not only could he throw sidearm, but he could change his arm slot from pitch to pitch, so for the first two pitches you might see fastballs out of a 3/4 delivery, then all of a sudden he drops down and throws a sidearm "laredo" slider.

Most guys struggle to keep their delivery the same, and if it changes, they lose command of their pitches, or they still have their command, but the breaking balls go flat and the fastballs lose their movement. Coney changed his motion at will.

Out of curiosity, did you have a full windup and a stretch? I've been reading about some pitching coaches that are now teaching young pitchers to develop their pitches from the stretch. The reasoning is that if you develop command of your pitches from a full windup, you won't be as effective when you go to the stretch, so instead you just learn to pitch from the stretch (or a in-between motion), and never change. The criticism is that some pitchers are vastly more effective from a full windup, and could never be as good as they could if they used both the full windup and the stretch.

[mgeoffriau]

Originally Posted by Wu Wei

Sounds like there are wider issues I'm unaware of regarding people's ideas/posts and history. I was just looking at this thread by itself and it kinda looks like, "Whoa! - Flame Fest 2006!" I don't want to get involved other than offering my impression of the conversation tone. [...] I guess I see both sides, it just depends whether you guys care enough to smooth it out. I hope so.

Not much to work out. OEFM rails on certain people about repeating themselves or making poor arguments, so when I get the opportunity, I rail on OEFM for repeating himself and making poor arguments. If you're gonna dish it out, you gotta be willing to take it.

[[TASF]Maverick]

Originally Posted by mgeoffriau

Remember David Cone? Not only could he throw sidearm, but he could change his arm slot from pitch to pitch, so for the first two pitches you might see fastballs out of a 3/4 delivery, then all of a sudden he drops down and throws a sidearm "laredo" slider.

Most guys struggle to keep their delivery the same, and if it changes, they lose command of their pitches, or they still have their command, but the breaking balls go flat and the fastballs lose their movement. Coney changed his motion at will.

Out of curiosity, did you have a full windup and a stretch? I've been reading about some pitching coaches that are now teaching young pitchers to develop their pitches from the stretch. The reasoning is that if you develop command of your pitches from a full windup, you won't be as effective when you go to the stretch, so instead you just learn to pitch from the stretch (or a in-between motion), and never change. The criticism is that some pitchers are vastly more effective from a full windup, and could never be as good as they could if they used both the full windup and the stretch.

Ah, I miss David Cone. One of the problems with changing your arm slots is that it can tip off the batter as to what pitch you are about to throw. Especially today when batters go straight to the TVs down the stairs from the dugouts to watch the pitch sequence they were just given. One of the reasons Roger Clemens has been so good is because he hides the ball well and is arm action is exactly the same whether he's throwing the 4-seam fastball, 2-seamer, splitter, slider, or the rare changeup he throws.

Judging by the good career David Cone had, he found a way to mix up his pitches and his arm slot. He didn't just throw the curveball at one angle, fastball at another, etc, etc. It all gets so damn complicated, as you've pointed out with your next question.

During the HS baseball season, about 3 of us pitchers went to school @ 7 am to work with a former MLB scout. He was a history/gov't teacher at the school and offered to help us out if we wanted it. He told us to go from the stretch only if we didn't feel comfortable going from the wind-up. But, one of our guys was less effective from the stretch because he changed his mechanics whenever he pitched from the stretch. It turned out that whenever this guy went from the stretch, he would just go through the motions and wouldn't use his plant foot to accelerate himself as he threw. In summary, throwing from the stretch is a problem for a lot of guys, but only because they're actually changing the mechanics for the way they throw.

haha I almost forgot that we played against a guy in JV that would routinely forget that people were on base. One of the times I stole home plate was when he just forgot I was on third and he pitched through his slow wind-up. When we played against him in Varsity, he always threw from the stretch. Maybe someone figured it out

I threw from the wind-up and the stretch, and I felt comfortable in both because I was left handed and did a lot of practice from the stretch to try to master a pick-off move similar to Andy Pettitte's.

[brian40]

Only our Fatboy could relate a pitching style to corporate America You really are "bizzaro" Funnygun aren't you